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Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

nytimes.com

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Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#21

Post by ctrl_freak »

doughj3 wrote: post #12

> The software was designed to conceal the cars’ emissions of the pollutant nitrogen oxide, which contributes to the creation of ozone and smog. Is this an error in the article or is creating ozone a bad thing?

> is creating ozone a bad thing?

At the ground level, yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone

"Ozone is a powerful oxidant (far more so than dioxygen) and has many industrial and consumer applications related to oxidation. This same high oxidising potential, however, causes ozone to damage mucous and respiratory tissues in animals, and also tissues in plants, above concentrations of about 100 ppb. This makes ozone a potent respiratory hazard and pollutant near ground level."

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#22

Post by amadeusw »

They even made commercials to prove how clean the cars are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNS2nvkjARk I own a TDI VW and fell into believing that the ride is indeed clean. Now it looks like their software hacks are even more refined than the combustion tech.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#23

Post by JorgeGT »

gnoway wrote: post #16
krapp wrote: post #4

How would this benefit Volkswagen? The article says the device activates emissions control systems when it detects the car is being tested... so it's not as if they're saving money by emulating a system they're not manufacturing.

Don't the emissions systems affect performance? I have a 2012 Golf TDI and really like it, one of the advantages over one of the hybrids is that I get pretty great fuel economy for the kind of driving I do, but it doesn't feel like I'm driving a weed eater. This really pisses me off. It doesn't surprise me I guess but it never occurred to me that a car manufacturer could get away with something like this for, apparen…

Yes, a common strategy is to inject more EGR (exhaust gas) into the fresh intake air. As EGR is already burned, it is inert, so it negatively affects the combustion, lowering the temperature. With lower combustion temperature you get less NOx... but less power for each amount of fuel, so your efficiency/performance is lower, and also non burned products (CO, C) increase. You then trap those with the Diesel Particulate Filter... it's a very complicated game with very small margins, that's the reason of so much cheating.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#25

Post by organsnyder »

arnoooooo wrote: post #6
krapp wrote: post #4

How would this benefit Volkswagen? The article says the device activates emissions control systems when it detects the car is being tested... so it's not as if they're saving money by emulating a system they're not manufacturing.

My guess is it uses some part that would need to be replaced (or replaced more often) if left in full use all the time ?

That could be—especially since automakers are required by the EPA to include emissions warranties of 8 years/80,000 miles.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#26

Post by dayjah »

When I last bought a VW (2008) I was concerned due to a clunking noise after first starting it up and driving a few miles; I called the VW service dept and they explained that there was a compressor which captured exhaust fumes and released them at a lower rate for the first few miles of each journey -- to help them meet EPA emissions standards. I was assured there was nothing to worry about.

While this is a different case, it struck me then that the emissions guidelines were being gamed by manufacturers. We're regularly reminded that barriers will be circumvented; what is the correct approach here? Like performance enhancing drugs in sports, too stiff of a fine and manufacturers are encouraged to find more subtle ways to beat the system, unenforced you leave a polluting industry to destroy our environment..

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#27

Post by jcreedon »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #20

I don't understand how California detected this. The one time I had to take my 2010 Jetta turbo diesel for a smog check, the inspection was ENTIRELY visual. The inspector did not insert a probe into the tailpipe. He did plug the test rig into the OBD-II port under the steering column and turn the key to the accessory position (presumably to electronically capture the VIN), but that's it. I even asked him at the end i…

I'm not sure about CA specifically, but some states only do full inspections on newer vehicles every other year. e.g. In a particular year the odd year models get the full inspection and the even year models just get a quick inspection and then vice versa in the next year.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#28

Post by kaffeemitsahne »

dayjah wrote: post #26

When I last bought a VW (2008) I was concerned due to a clunking noise after first starting it up and driving a few miles; I called the VW service dept and they explained that there was a compressor which captured exhaust fumes and released them at a lower rate for the first few miles of each journey -- to help them meet EPA emissions standards. I was assured there was nothing to worry about. While this is a differen…

Just like sports, even stiffer fine and ruined reputation on being caught cheating.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#29

Post by United857 »

The tech industry has been guilty of this in the past as well. Example: Nvidia and AMD drivers detected if you were running certain benchmarks or games, and would cheat by downgrading various rendering settings that had minimal effect visually.

Often this was a simple check to get the process's executable name; simply renaming the .exe would get you significantly different perf results.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#30

Post by denzil_correa »

Does HN not detect duplicates? I submitted the same article 3 minutes before OP.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10239985

There's also another submission 15 minutes after OP's submission too.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10240106

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