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Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

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Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#891

Post by BrandoElFollito »

cromka wrote: post #876
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #842

I am French but travelled extensively to Poalnd and lived there for some time. This is a truly wonderful country. The one thing that is a insurmontable barrier to go and live there (I considered that) is the healthcare sstem. It is completely broken. You have free healthcare where people behave like beggars in front of the demi-god MD. They do not pay him for hs work, officially, but there is money slipped under he t…

> but there is money slipped under he table to make things work. Corruption like this is almost non-existent anymore. Was very much the case 10 years ago and earlier. Docs make serious money now, they don't need to risk it with bribery. > Finally the medicines/drugs are not refunded. You have to pay for them. This is wild for someone coming from France. Sorry, WHAT? This was never the case, where are you getting this…

> Corruption like this is almost non-existent anymore. Was very much the case 10 years ago and earlier. Docs make serious money now, they don't need to risk it with bribery.

Go to a hospital where you need to be operated. Look at the queues to see the ordynator and how people behave and talk among each other how much to give.

have you been to a hospital recently? I have, I visited the parents of a freind and actually witnessed this, not from a theoretical parespective but in real life. Ask around.

>> Finally the medicines/drugs are not refunded. You have to pay for them. This is wild for someone coming from France.

> Sorry, WHAT? This was never the case, where are you getting this from?

Do you actually live in Poland?? OK, let's try this. When you are sick and you get a recept for medicaments, do you pay for them, or are they free? You have to pay. Do you get a reimbursement? Maybe 50% if you hit the right drug.

You have to buy diapers for adults for a person who is handicapped. Are they free? No they are not. You pay for them, a part is subsudised. To 80% of a limit set (not the actual price) except if you apply fro special extra stiff such a PFRON.

You have MS. Do you have access to modern medicamentation by default? No you don't - after 40 yo you get into a less efficient track.

Please do your homework before discussing. There are people who actually know this becaise they were actually direcly involved.

As a constrast, and something which is a baseline for civilized medicine -- my wife has MS and it costs us a few EUR per month (you pay 1 € per visit to the doctor and about 0.5 € per pack of medicine, up to 50 € per year total). This includes all the doctor visits, tomography, rehabilitation, ... I would say that my whole family pays 20 € a year total for everything medical.

Like I said, I have a particular fondness for Poland which is a marvellous country. This does not mean that one should not point out the things that should change.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#892

Post by generic92034 »

maxglute wrote: post #834
generic92034 wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU trap? How far do you think Poland would have come economically without access to the EU common market and without EU subsidies?

Not far, but the EU trap is about the ceiling, it's about how far Poland can potentially go.

If there is such a ceiling (clearly, I doubt it, seeing many of the main German industry leaders going down or offshore, so there is plenty space to grow), it is not of the EU's doing. It it about money and the advantages large incumbents have in our version of market capitalism.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#893

Post by sam_lowry_ »

whitepoplar wrote: post #704
znpy wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought furniture, and i was surprised it came from poland actually. The website was something like a polish ikea. Btw great furniture, it’s still in my living room many years after, pretty much still pristine.

Do you recall the name of the manufacturer?

Not op, but I bought quite some noo.ma home furniture half a year ago. Not sure if they manufacture it all in Poland, but the design is refreshing, at least.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#894

Post by cromka »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #891
cromka wrote: post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but there is money slipped under he table to make things work. Corruption like this is almost non-existent anymore. Was very much the case 10 years ago and earlier. Docs make serious money now, they don't need to risk it with bribery. > Finally the medicines/drugs are not refunded. You have to pay for them. This is wild for someone coming from France. Sorry, WHAT? This was never the case, where are you getting this…

> Corruption like this is almost non-existent anymore. Was very much the case 10 years ago and earlier. Docs make serious money now, they don't need to risk it with bribery. Go to a hospital where you need to be operated. Look at the queues to see the ordynator and how people behave and talk among each other how much to give. have you been to a hospital recently? I have, I visited the parents of a freind and actually…

> you have to pay. Do you get a reimbursement? Maybe 50% if you hit the right drug.

Again, that's bullshit: https://www.gov.pl/web/zdrowie/od-czego-zalezy-cena-leku-ref...

There's over 2800 free drugs right now. Over 3800 for seniors.

> Please do your homework before discussing.

The fucking irony of this.

EOT here. I am not gonna exercise your anecdotal stereotypes. For the record, I did hear about bribes even recently. It's still a very uncommon thing.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#895

Post by distances »

vkou wrote: post #881
distances wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

De-russification didn't really start until the Orange Revolution, though. It's a long and painful process for Ukraine as reducing corruption requires shedding all the Russian influence. Before that, a lot of the problems genuinely are because of Russia. All states escaping the Russian curse improve speedily once they join the EU, and I expect the same to happen in Ukraine.

Belarus developed much faster than Ukraine in the decade between the Orange revolution and the start of the war. It's per-capita GDP quadrupled (to a much higher end result) in that time, while Ukraine's only doubled. Yet, Belarus is politically 100% a Russian province. How exactly does your theory explain that gap?

Russian propaganda is really running out of steam if Belarus of all countries is now the success case. What's next, statistics of how happy the North Koreans are?

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#896

Post by chistev »

jakozaur wrote: post #454

The story is longer: Poland was the first country to make a remarkable peaceful transition from a bankrupt, failed Soviet satellite state. The shock therapy, plus NATO and EU aspirations, paved the way. It is a story of a country that made a lot of the right decisions along the way. Managed to keep consistent high growth, not a pony trick or boom/bust mode. Poland should be a role model for many other countries. Reco…

I just bookmarked that book. Thanks

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#897

Post by 1718627440 »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #820
PunchyHamster wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is pretty common trend of people complaining about X being bad coz EU but most of the time it turns into one of * It was pretty sensible EU directive implemented badly by national govt * It was pretty sensible EU directive implemented okay but communicated badly * Outright lie about the problem and the scope of it. One example: The people complained that "EU will force them to pay to scrap solar panels" The tru…

I a sure it's Russian propaganda that the EU has basically tried for the last 3 years to ban encryption so that it can access all your personal messages without a warrant? Or is it also Russia propaganda that it wants to force VPNs to collect data on their users or force everyone to use their real identities online so that it makes it easy to prosecute anyone for wrong speech? https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privac…

Just because their is a a circulation of some misinformation, doesn't mean everything is. No institution is perfect. Also it are the member states, that are pushing for it, while the EU parliament is what stroked it down so far.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#898

Post by 1718627440 »

moritzwarhier wrote: post #427
1718627440 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think of it as an investment. The rest of the EU also benefits from their hard work, and economic prosperity. Other countries in the EU have also enjoyed economic growth and support over the years. It is for as long, as the EU exists in its current form. The rise of anti-EU parties in both Poland and Germany makes it a risky investment.

Thinking about that risk increases said risk. Also, for Germany, and I assume, other EU countries, cohesion and economic strength of the EU is the most important value that exists.

Not necessarily. The fact that investment pays of by cooperation is an argument for it.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#899

Post by 1718627440 »

6d6b73 wrote: post #650
1718627440 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> German working class is actually benefiting from this as Poland it one of their biggest importers now. Yes they do. > And they are still benefiting from slave labor Not sure whether that really matters now-a-days for the economy. > stolen precious metals One of the cores of industrial and mine centers that made the German Empire thrive during the Belle Epoque, are now owned by Poland. > Not to mention the Marshall…

It got both treatments because of their actions in WW2.

Sure, did you read that I didn't think that? The issue is a lot of domestic politicians are from the western part and don't acknowledge that situation with their actions. The only party, that managed to add this to their public image is the far right party, which is a huge problem.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#900

Post by 1718627440 »

MobiusHorizons wrote: post #404
1718627440 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MBAs and company owners do not come from stem education.

Are you saying engineers and scientists don’t own companies? That’s an odd thing to say on a forum that’s basically dedicated to exactly that outcome.

Yes. In most large companies the corporate administration does not have a career in the actual subject the company operates in, but more in finances and economy. This forum is also based in the USA, which maybe has another culture. But it is also routinely pointed out here, how corporations act more in the interests of shareholders, than in the improvement of the actual product and innovation.

The most popular way to own a company is also inheritance, instead of studying an engineering subject.

This comment was also an answer in the context of the peaceful revolution, where a lot of companies where bought by larger companies from the west, both to destroy their better competitor and get funds from the EU. Such actions are seldomly done by engineers.

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