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DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek v4

#891

Post by ting0 »

WarmWash wrote: post #711
revolvingthrow wrote: post #160

> pricing "Pro" $3.48 / 1M output tokens vs $4.40 I’d like somebody to explain to me how the endless comments of "bleeding edge labs are subsidizing the inference at an insane rate" make sense in light of a humongous model like v4 pro being $4 per 1M. I’d bet even the subscriptions are profitable, much less the API prices. edit: $1.74/M input $3.48/M output on OpenRouter

Because you are comparing China to the US. In China you need to appease state goals. In the US you need to appease investor goals. China will keep funding them regardless of their income, because the goal is (ostensibly) a state AGI/ASI. In the US, the goal is an ROI which may or may not come with AGI/ASI. They are different economies with different goals. We can look at past Chinese national projects and see that th…

This is nonsense. The real reason is because the US companies are scamming the public, as per usual.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#892

Post by ting0 »

stingraycharles wrote: post #572
yanis_t wrote: post #570

Assuming it is almost as good as Opus 4.6 (which benchmarks seem to give evidence for), and assuming we are having a good enough harness (PI, OpenCode), it's is now more than 5x cheaper. I just want to remind you that this is happening at the same time as Anthropic A/B tests removal of Code from Pro Plan, and as OpenAI releases gpt-5.5 2x more expensive than gpt-5.4...

> Assuming it is almost as good as Opus 4.6 (which benchmarks seem to give evidence for) That’s a big if. It’s my experience that models that perform very well on benchmarks do not necessarily perform well in real life. I’ve mostly started ignoring the benchmarks and run my own evals.

> It’s my experience that models that perform very well on benchmarks do not necessarily perform well in real life

Well, yeah... Like Opus 4.5, 4.6, 4.7. Top of the benchmarks and yet it's a pile of crap at the moment and has been for months.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#893

Post by rwyinuse »

ejpir wrote: post #783
jurgenburgen wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if we’re ahead of the curve but that tired feeling has started turning into hate here in the EU. I guess being threatened with invasion does that to you. The next decade is going to look very different with America Alone.

yup. I was taught in school in Europe to admire Americans and their might. Only in the last few years I've come to understand they are maybe one of the worst western countries there is. Countless wars, even under Obama, so it's not a president x or y thing. It's culcture. I would go as far as to say I'd rather visit Russia than America at this point. America is great at hiding their true colors and we've been properl…

Russia is still whole other level of evil compared to America.

If nothing else, Americans at least put some value on the lives of their own troops - when the F15 got shot down in Iran, the launched a massive rescue operation. Back in the 70's public pressure over casualties pretty much ended Vietnam war. Meanwhile Russia in Ukraine is sending just meatwaves of young Russian men, one after another to die for nothing, far surpassing death toll of USA in Vietnam, and their government & most citizen seem to be okay with that. That is what I find most terrifying about Russia. The utter lack of compassion and care towards their fellow Russians that just happen to be poorer, or live in the provinces rather than rich cities. Don't get me even started on how they treat their troops, the culture of corruption and abuse in the armed forces...

Both countries are ruled by psychopaths, but Russia is way, way more rotten as a society.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#894

Post by otagekki »

digitaltrees wrote: post #863
jari_mustonen wrote: post #239

Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…

I am all for monopoly breakdown. But there is an argument that this is anticompetitive strategy designed to undercut the commercial viability of the other labs. In free trade negotiations this is called “dumping”: selling a product below cost at a high volume to gain market share by driving competition out of the market and then raising prices when you’ve outlasted them.

Unfortunately Uber and the likes have been doing this but nobody batted an eye

Re: DeepSeek v4

#895

Post by kybernetikos »

glenstein wrote: post #816
nabakin wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. That is a huge claim to make with no evidence. I researched what you said, and I have found no statement to that effect in their paper[0], on huggingface[1], twitter[2], WeChat[3], or in their news release[4]. They only mention as a footnote in only the Chinese version of their news release that they plan to reduce inference costs with…

Comments like this are why I go to the comments! I never would have thought to check. And while I'm here I want to note that I feel there's a big misunderstanding of what is and isn't demonstrated by DeepSeek. So far as I can tell the major (and important!) innovation is reproducing near-frontier level capabilities at a fraction of the cost, but it may be the case that iterating forward at the frontier is the costly…

If you can get something almost as capable for a fiftieth of the price, in most cases you'll do that. You might still send a few tokens to the more expensive option for the exceptional, difficult cases, but that's maybe 10% of the tokens at most. I don't see how it'll be possible to keep spending what anthropic, openai, google etc are spending if they're only going to see the trickiest 10% of tokens.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#896

Post by worik »

rfrey wrote: post #653
Ladioss wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it an illuminating experience about the power of mass propaganda every time I see an American believe they somewhat have the moral high ground over China, despite starting a new war somewhere around the globe either for petrol or on behalf of Israel every six months.

Many of us (worldwide, I'm not American) watched China massacre thousands of its own children at Tiananmen Square. The US is descending into totalitarianism, but it hasn't reached that level yet. And China may have changed in some ways but there have been no signals it would not repeat that event if it thought circumstances warranted.

> children at Tiananmen Square. The US is descending into totalitarianism, but it hasn't reached that level yet.

Ask that question of the American Indians the USA genocided.

I do not see why USAnians killing Iranians is better than being killed by other Iranians. Dead is dead

The bombs that implemented the genocide in Gaza were dropped by the IDF but supplied, paid for and profited from USAnians

Not really so clear

Re: DeepSeek v4

#897

Post by u_fucking_dork »

kccqzy wrote: post #867
aprdm wrote: post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one cares about this kind of stuff. 99% of the devs are not English native speakers, what do you expect ? It works and we all can understand it

I try hard not to care but subconsciously spelling errors and grammar issues scream low-quality work to me. It’s the kind of mistake that’s the easiest to correct, and they didn’t bother.

Missing comma in your first sentence was such an egregious grammar error that I was unable to finish reading the rest.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#898

Post by danilocesar »

segmondy wrote: post #841
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You run a 671B model at home?

Yes, and plenty of others do too. Quantizied. Join us at r/localllama My largest models 318G /llmzoo/models/Qwen3.5-397B 377G DeepSeekv3.2-nolight 380G /llmzoo/models/DeepSeek-V3.2-UD 400G /llmzoo/models/Qwen3.5-397B-Q8 443G DeepSeek-Math-v2 443G DeepSeek-V3-0324-Q5 522G /llmzoo/models/GLM5.1 545G /llmzoo/models/kimi2.6 546G /llmzoo/models/KimiK2.5

Is your house's heating system based on H100s?

Re: DeepSeek v4

#899

Post by thiagoharry »

rfrey wrote: post #653
Ladioss wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it an illuminating experience about the power of mass propaganda every time I see an American believe they somewhat have the moral high ground over China, despite starting a new war somewhere around the globe either for petrol or on behalf of Israel every six months.

Many of us (worldwide, I'm not American) watched China massacre thousands of its own children at Tiananmen Square. The US is descending into totalitarianism, but it hasn't reached that level yet. And China may have changed in some ways but there have been no signals it would not repeat that event if it thought circumstances warranted.

> Many of us (worldwide, I'm not American) watched China massacre thousands of its own children at Tiananmen Square. The US is descending into totalitarianism, but it hasn't reached that level yet.

Wasn't the US bombing its own children just 4 years earlier in Philadelphia?

Re: DeepSeek v4

#900

Post by 8note »

cde-v wrote: post #518
sigmoid10 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not sure how I feel about China of all places to control the only alternative AI stack, but I guess it's better than leaving everything to the US alone. If China ever feels emboldened enough to go for Taiwan and the US descends into complete chaos, the rest of the world running on AI will be at the mercy of authoritarian regimes. At the very least you can be sure noone is in this for the good of the people anym…

China doesn't even care about Taiwan anymore, their saber-rattling about it is a convenient distraction while they quietly make it completely irrelevant in the next few years.

china is gonna care about taiwan as a means of ocean access til the end of time, or til the tectonic plates move to make different opportunities.

the people and industry arent what matter there

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