U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#891

Post by alt227 » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 4:22 PM UTC

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #565

The complete lack of any kind of technological understanding by the people in power of most major governments is a huge existential risk. Thankfully businesses like Apple are completely staked on privacy, but Apple is actually big enough to give a middle finger to the UK. Other companies might not be able to.

> businesses like Apple are completely staked on privacy

This is completely false. It has been shown time and time again that Apple will bend to whatever data requests the US government ask for.

You may think they care about your privacy, because they tell you they do. But they are legally bound to say that. Every surveilance program they have ever been part of has had a legal requirement to lie publicly about its existance. Then when it becomes public through a leak, they are able to say 'Sorry we lied, we had to by law'.

Heres just one example: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/06/apple-governments-surve...

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#892

Post by marcosdumay » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 4:23 PM UTC

cmsj wrote: post #96

pantulis wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know where the belief that all criminals are tech experts comes from; From forums of tech experts. I do not think this attempt by the authorities will be any useful, while it would initially work... well these guys may not be hackers but are not idiots and over time you will get your average baddies become tech-savvy enough to circumvent this.

last time I checked, our prisons are full of people dumb enough to get caught.

What is the correlation with full prisons and crime outside of them?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#893

Post by marcosdumay » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 4:27 PM UTC

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #591

Funny that the government does not need to order people to divulge their private communications. It can just order to a third party do so. Wait, why does a third party have access to peoples' private communications. That is the Apple design. The company wants people to use their servers.

> Wait, why does a third party have access to peoples' private communications.

If you take the information at face value, they don't.

The government is mandating them to actively infiltrate into people's private communications.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#894

Post by alt227 » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 4:27 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #309

mrcwinn wrote: post #264

You cannot acknowledge the existence of a request by the UK. You cannot tell users you implemented the proposed system. And you must do all of this to citizens who have no representation in your system, without the consent of their governments. It all begs the question, what else have they requested, and of those which requests were accepted secretly? Truly a pathetic example of a democracy.

There is only one way to respond to this. You just do not comply with this. If you are Apple you withdraw from the UK completely if necessary. But a better option is probably to just take the punishment for not complying while you appeal. The cost will be large regardless. But the reputational damage if Apple complies seems it will be larger than both the fine for noncompliance or the cost of losing all business in a…

> You just do not comply with this. If you are Apple you withdraw from the UK completely if necessary

But Apple has a massive history of complying with government data requests all over the world. They care not for user privacy one bit, and so this request is not that unusual for them.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#895

Post by alt227 » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 4:28 PM UTC

jonplackett wrote: post #812

I saw a comment earlier about this being the USA asking the UK to do this. Sounds like quite the conspiracy theory, but if the USA were not OK with this, the UK surely wouldn’t dare to take on a crown jewel in the US tech sector, potentially causing them serious problems.

US have asked for far more and far worse from Apple and been given it. Im sure UK was just following the precedent set from other governments.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#896

Post by speerer » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 4:35 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #833

r3trohack3r wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually my takeaway from the Snowden leaks was that the government tried really hard to stay within the confines of the law, even if they wildly stretched the legal theory to get there. https://www.blankenship.io/essays/2020-07-13/ Doesn’t justify what they were doing, or make it legal, but it’s an important distinction when trying to reason about government surveillance programs.

By that use of the phrase, sovereign citizens try really hard to stay within the law.

But this is true, right? The whole movement is based on their legal theory giving them rights to behave in a certian way, and the idea that everyone else wastes that 'right' through ignorance and state manipulation. It's dumb, but not dishonest.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#897

Post by alt227 » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 4:38 PM UTC

crest wrote: post #151

[flagged]

Right, after all the docs leaked by Snowden et al? After it has been shown time and time again that Apple give any customer data to the US government that they ask for? Trump as your president?! Thats right, the UK is the creepy nanny state!

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#898

Post by anticensor » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 4:45 PM UTC

throw0101c wrote: post #434

izacus wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple stockholders would never allow that.

> Apple stockholders would never allow that. Then they can vote in a board of directors that agrees with them, and have that board fire Tim Cook. I would hazard to guess that you'll see an exodus of a lot of folks leaving Apple either because (a) they won't follow that order, or (b) in solidarity with those that are fired. Reminder that privacy is feature that Apple touts (how much you believe them is up to you): > O…

Shutdown by voluntary liquidation requires shareholder approval, cannot be done by the board alone.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#899

Post by caseyy » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 4:46 PM UTC

kypro wrote: post #582

tim333 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brit here. Yeah from my experience people don't care. Hardly anyone gets prosecuted and those who do have often done something bad. Most day to day complaints are they don't prosecute enough, often related to the bastard that snatched your phone. We have approximately zero people sitting in jail for failing to decrypt and similar. >This is a very obvious setup for future totalitarianism. No it really isn't. If they a…

Brit here. > Hardly anyone gets prosecuted and those who do have often done something bad. Perhaps often they've done something bad, but sometimes they haven't, that's the point. Obviously this is wrong and you shouldn't be so passive about it. > If they are planning a totalitarian takeover they are being very sneaky about it. There is a strong anti totalitarianism tradition here including elections since 1265, writi…

It is true, the British do tend to submit to authority. Questioning authority is considered poor taste, bad manners.

This way is more serene and orderly than anarchy. But I suppose it bodes poorly for the individual liberties. On balance, there is value in aligning and orchestrating society. Too much individualism can turn into radicalisation through identity politics, as we’ve seen in the US in the last decade.

A large degree of societal cohesion is not all bad, in the context of the alternative. It’s not all good either, but it has served the British thus far. It’s serving some other countries like China, too, one can’t deny it.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#900

Post by hatwd » Sat, Feb 08, 2025, 4:52 PM UTC

It's baffling to me that any sane, healthy person would advocate for invasion of not just one person's privacy (in the case of known or highly suspected criminal activity), but a whole country's people's privacy. (In this case, at least, the privacy of all Apple users in the UK.)

Where does this problem start? Is it a basic education thing that valuing one's own and others' privacy needs to be taught to kids from a young age?

For instance, in the meetings in which these ideas are proposed, why are they not considered a serious, fireable offence, like bringing up racist or sexist comments?