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Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#891

Post by melbourne_mat »

ploxiln wrote: post #640
renewiltord wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, this is what it looks like to cater to the privacy/security crowd. They have a picture of ideological purity. They don't actually use your product. Essentially if these were customers you'd want to fire them. People in this business always discover this stuff and then they're always like "Why do they hate me?". The answer is "they never wanted to love you. They want to watch you fall". Like DDG with their favic…

I use Firefox. I have used it since it was called Phoenix, and I still use it today, extensively, on macOS, Linux, and Windows. I'm just disappointed about what Mozilla has become over the years. It wasn't supposed to be an "agile" tech company, with slick marketing and UI/UX, making deals to try to get market share. It was supposed to be a non-profit foundation, making an open-source cross-platform browser engine, p…

They should have switched to blink or WebKit years ago. Yes I used Firefox since it came out of AOL but for quite a few years now it has been a liability. Too many web sites simply don't work in Firefox. Nobody making web sites tests in Firefox any more. The Mozilla leadership adopted the head in the sand approach on this point with the obvious outcome. So long and thanks for all the fish!

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#892

Post by slightwinder »

dblohm7 wrote: post #258

[I am a Mozilla employee, and yes, I do recognize how my position influences my perspective.] One thing that always frustrates me a bit whenever Mozilla comes up on HN or elsewhere is that we are always held to impossibly high standards. Yes, as a non-profit, we should be held to higher standards, but not impossible standards. OTOH, sometimes it just seems unreasonable and absurd. Stuff like, to paraphrase, "Look at…

> One thing that always frustrates me a bit whenever Mozilla comes up on HN or elsewhere is that we are always held to impossibly high standards. Yes, as a non-profit, we should be held to higher standards, but not impossible standards.

Standards for Mozilla do not come alone from being an NGO, but from the promises Mozilla makes and the history. Breaking promises and forgetting it's origin seems to be the main source of hate against mozilla, besides of course the fails themself.

> Did we apologize?

Nope.

> Did we learn anything?

Nope.

> Did we work to prevent it happening again?

Nope. But some were even repeated.

> Mozilla is such an important voice in shaping the future of the internet.

Is this still a thing? I get the impression that mozilla today has just become a small unimportant voice, mostly just following the choral. Even Microsoft seems to be now stronger in that regard.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#893

Post by bluenose69 »

Anyone remember when companies were straightforward about layoffs and firings? You know, text like "Sales are slow, so we need to lay some people off", not "We’ll meet people where they are" (whatever that phrase-du-jour even means).

If that letter is a guide to leadership at mozilla, there's not much hope for the future of the organization. It might be a good idea to ask the remaining technical people what they would like to build, and let them go from there.

It's time to excite people with products. They got the browser to be nearly as good as the alternatives (I try every new release of FF, only to switch back to Safari when I see the terrible effect FF has on power consumption).

How about a better alternative for remote meetings? Start with the basics: respond to reduced bandwidth by focussing on audio, not video. I want to hear what someone is saying, not to see the titles on their bookshelves. In my experience, zoom is pretty bad at this, and so (to a lesser extent) is microsoft/teams. Watching TV news, I've learned that webex and skype are also poor. Given the poor alternatives, and the high demand, I am surprised Mozilla has not already produced a kick-ass product, and I was disappointed not to read of this (or any other technical idea) in this management-speak firing letter.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#894

Post by amelius »

themacguffinman wrote: post #746
amelius wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major threat for the web is Native Apps. They should find/build/maintain a good alternative for that.

I think they've already tried, their attempt was called "Firefox OS" which ran web apps exclusively. I don't think they have the skill or clout to pull it off. And I don't say that as an insult, not even Google could really pull it off, although they're still trying. Native app performance is too far superior, even now.

But now we have wasm. Perhaps it could change the situation?

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#895

Post by zaarn »

dblohm7 wrote: post #258

[I am a Mozilla employee, and yes, I do recognize how my position influences my perspective.] One thing that always frustrates me a bit whenever Mozilla comes up on HN or elsewhere is that we are always held to impossibly high standards. Yes, as a non-profit, we should be held to higher standards, but not impossible standards. OTOH, sometimes it just seems unreasonable and absurd. Stuff like, to paraphrase, "Look at…

I've went through some of the comments on a german IT news site regarding this and it's been nothing but dissapointing.

People openly post that they'll switch to Chrome or Chrome-derivatives, as if that fixes things, because Mozilla allegedly is throwing away money by not 100% focusing on the browser.

Mozilla is the last company other than Apple maintaining an independent browser engine. Microsoft has given up as well.

If Mozilla and by Proxy the Firefox Project dies, the internet will become a darker place. The only hope would be that Microsoft ruins the Chrome browser via EEE (and in thise case, one of the instances where I hope they do) before Mozilla has to shutter.

People give Google an excuse for the billionth time they are caught exporting your medical history from chrome but if Mozilla makes a mistake, they're chastized for it.

It's disgusting how people treat Mozilla.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#896

Post by lewisjoe »

melbourne_mat wrote: post #891
ploxiln wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Firefox. I have used it since it was called Phoenix, and I still use it today, extensively, on macOS, Linux, and Windows. I'm just disappointed about what Mozilla has become over the years. It wasn't supposed to be an "agile" tech company, with slick marketing and UI/UX, making deals to try to get market share. It was supposed to be a non-profit foundation, making an open-source cross-platform browser engine, p…

They should have switched to blink or WebKit years ago. Yes I used Firefox since it came out of AOL but for quite a few years now it has been a liability. Too many web sites simply don't work in Firefox. Nobody making web sites tests in Firefox any more. The Mozilla leadership adopted the head in the sand approach on this point with the obvious outcome. So long and thanks for all the fish!

The secret to make folks test on Firefox is by making developers happy. What makes them happy? A good DevTools experience.

Chrome won me over as a developer with its developer console, and I noticed Firefox Devtools has become a lot better now.

There are still quirks in Chrome's devtools and Firefox really has a shot if it focuses properly. For example working with large JS files are painful and the networks tab can be way more better.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#897

Post by GoblinSlayer »

DonHopkins wrote: post #780
war1025 wrote: post #683

> I'm just disappointed about what Mozilla has become over the years. I think that train started rolling when they forced Eich out as CEO. Ever since then, Mozilla seems to be less about best-in-class technology, and more about virtue signalling.

Eich was not forced out or fired. In fact, just the opposite: the board actually tried to get Eich to stay, but he decided to leave all on his own. Don't try to rewrite history to make an ideological point. It's all very well and unambiguously documented what really happened, and there's no excuse for you spreading that misinformation. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-resignat... Q: Was Brendan Eic…

The bigger picture doesn't support your suggestion much, it's obvious Mozilla has plenty of will to double down on politics.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#898

Post by slightwinder »

lazyjeff wrote: post #492
discardable_dan wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a large gap between "focus on the browser" and "make Firefox slightly better." People forget that Firefox gave the world tabbed browsing. Sure, it was around before, but Firefox was the drive and impetus that moved it from a niche idea to the default option across every browser . That was over a decade ago. Firefox has the opportunity to execute a vision of modern web-browsing again. And, frankly, we really…

I seem to remember that Opera was the first stand-alone browser that brought the world tabbed browsing. People switched to Opera for that and its fast performance. Other browsers including Mozilla copied the feature to catch up. Opera was the source of browser interface innovation and I wish we could replicate that process. They also invented popup blocking, speed dial (the default blank tab UI now on every browser),…

> I seem to remember that Opera was the first stand-alone browser that brought the world tabbed browsing.

Nope. There were other browser before that. And Opera did not have Tabs back then. They had MDI with a button-bar for document-access. Mozilla was the first one delivering a real tabbed interface, and was later copied by opera and others.

At the end there was a bunch of features coming from several browsers (but mostly mozilla and opera), which improved each other in tight competition; so it's a bit complicated to say what originated from whom.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#899

Post by cmsj »

This is obviously very sad for the folk being laid off from Mozilla, and they have my sympathies and best wishes for finding alternate employment.

Separate to that, and I realise I'm shouting at the sky since this is just one comment among over 1200 others... CAN WE PLEASE STOP GIVING THE WEB TO GOOGLE.

Apple's iOS browser engine policy is basically the only thing that stands between Google and complete dominance of the web. That's right, an anti-choice, walled-garden decision to force WebKit on all iOS users, is the only defence against Chrome supplanting the ideal of The Web, with itself.

Firefox and Safari are basically the only browsers left that don't use Chromium, and they are making the sensible decision to hold back Google's frenetic sprint to expose our entire computers to JavaScript. I'm confident that Apple can hold the line if it wants to, but I have to assume that Firefox will be dead within 5 years, which means the entire dream of an open web, rests solely on Apple's whims. This is not healthy in any way.

To all of you who say things like "Safari is the new IE", or bemoan the lack of particular Chrome APIs in WebKit, or who solely target Chrome and don't care if your sites break in Firefox/WebKit.... you, all of you, individually and collectively, are killing the web. Stop sleepwalking all of us into a future where Chrome is the only "OS" that matters on any platform.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#900

Post by thiht »

dblohm7 wrote: post #258

[I am a Mozilla employee, and yes, I do recognize how my position influences my perspective.] One thing that always frustrates me a bit whenever Mozilla comes up on HN or elsewhere is that we are always held to impossibly high standards. Yes, as a non-profit, we should be held to higher standards, but not impossible standards. OTOH, sometimes it just seems unreasonable and absurd. Stuff like, to paraphrase, "Look at…

> Sure, Mozilla has made mistakes. Did we apologize? Did we learn anything? Did we work to prevent it happening again?

I genuinely do not know if this is rhetorical. My guess would be "no" to all the questions but it doesn't suit the narrative.

Maybe you think it's "yes"? Do you mind clarifying why?

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