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Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

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Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#881

Post by vkou »

distances wrote: post #838
drysine wrote: post #823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

De-russification didn't really start until the Orange Revolution, though. It's a long and painful process for Ukraine as reducing corruption requires shedding all the Russian influence. Before that, a lot of the problems genuinely are because of Russia. All states escaping the Russian curse improve speedily once they join the EU, and I expect the same to happen in Ukraine.

Belarus developed much faster than Ukraine in the decade between the Orange revolution and the start of the war. It's per-capita GDP quadrupled (to a much higher end result) in that time, while Ukraine's only doubled.

Yet, Belarus is politically 100% a Russian province.

How exactly does your theory explain that gap?

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#882

Post by Sabinus »

vkou wrote: post #881
distances wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

De-russification didn't really start until the Orange Revolution, though. It's a long and painful process for Ukraine as reducing corruption requires shedding all the Russian influence. Before that, a lot of the problems genuinely are because of Russia. All states escaping the Russian curse improve speedily once they join the EU, and I expect the same to happen in Ukraine.

Belarus developed much faster than Ukraine in the decade between the Orange revolution and the start of the war. It's per-capita GDP quadrupled (to a much higher end result) in that time, while Ukraine's only doubled. Yet, Belarus is politically 100% a Russian province. How exactly does your theory explain that gap?

Belarus was rewarded for loyalty. Ukraine was unstable, oligarchic, and increasingly punished for partial exit.

Belarus in 2004-2014 is a subsidised client. Ukraine after 2004 Orange Revolution is a contested borderland. They are different mechanisms inside the same imperial political system.

Russian dominance can produce short term client-state rents (Russia sells very cheap crude to Belarus, Belarus sells world price refined products to world market), but it tends to trap countries in dependency, weak modernization, and political subordination. When a country tries to leave the orbit, the coercive part of the system appears. Ukraine had it's gas price dramatically increased, then supply interrupted, among other pressure.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#883

Post by vkou »

Sabinus wrote: post #882
vkou wrote: post #881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belarus developed much faster than Ukraine in the decade between the Orange revolution and the start of the war. It's per-capita GDP quadrupled (to a much higher end result) in that time, while Ukraine's only doubled. Yet, Belarus is politically 100% a Russian province. How exactly does your theory explain that gap?

Belarus was rewarded for loyalty. Ukraine was unstable, oligarchic, and increasingly punished for partial exit. Belarus in 2004-2014 is a subsidised client. Ukraine after 2004 Orange Revolution is a contested borderland. They are different mechanisms inside the same imperial political system. Russian dominance can produce short term client-state rents (Russia sells very cheap crude to Belarus, Belarus sells world pri…

You may be onto something with respect to how hegemons and empires operate.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#884

Post by eduction »

jakozaur wrote: post #511
anikan_vader wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Poland was the first country to make a remarkable peaceful transition from a bankrupt, failed Soviet satellite state. In what sense? Czechia is richer per capita. Almost all of the former Soviet satellite states in eastern Europe have had largely peaceful (since 1991) sustained economic growth. The exceptions are exactly those countries which continue to have Russian troops occupying portions, namely Belarus, Ukra…

Poland's first partly free election was on 4 June 1989, preceded by the roundtable negotiations. The protests in Czechoslovakia came later, called the Velvet Revolution, from 17 to 28 November 1989. In June 1990, Czechoslovakia held its first democratic elections, a year after Poland. Poland paved the way for the whole of central and eastern Europe. The Round Table produced the negotiated-exit template that Hungary b…

Self glorifying nonsense. Gorbachev ALLOWED Poland to not get crushed. You think Poles were any braver in 1989 than the Chinese people who laid down their lives in Tiananmen? You think your solidarity was in any way superior to what they did, what the Hungarians and Czechs did decades earlier? You succeeded due to good timing and because Gorby was your ultimate overlord rather than Deng Xiaopong. Poles should go thank him.

Stephen Kotkin says this much better than I ever could. https://youtu.be/0tXvLJXkFFg?t=295&si=26yINqxrcSdOUxCv

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#885

Post by [deleted] »

tasuki wrote: post #669
anikan_vader wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Poland was the first country to make a remarkable peaceful transition from a bankrupt, failed Soviet satellite state. In what sense? Czechia is richer per capita. Almost all of the former Soviet satellite states in eastern Europe have had largely peaceful (since 1991) sustained economic growth. The exceptions are exactly those countries which continue to have Russian troops occupying portions, namely Belarus, Ukra…

> Czechia is richer per capita. Are you sure about that? I'm Czech but have lived in Poland for 8 years and visit regularly. Poland used to be way poorer than Czechia, but these days it looks the other way around. I think the stats are either lagging behind or computed wrong. Note I regularly visit both the cities and the countryside in both Czechia and Poland. Btw, the article has a "GDP per capita growth in post-co…

[deleted]

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#886

Post by kazinator »

card_zero wrote: post #814
legulere wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even earlier in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_uprising_of_1953 Here in Germany they very often talk about the importance of what happened in Poland for the reunification

I'm enjoying the way this dispute reflects on the USSR. We were the first to try to escape! No, we were the first, years before that! No, you're both wrong, it was us!

Nope; I longed to escape long before you dreamed of it!

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#887

Post by drysine »

Sabinus wrote: post #882
vkou wrote: post #881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belarus developed much faster than Ukraine in the decade between the Orange revolution and the start of the war. It's per-capita GDP quadrupled (to a much higher end result) in that time, while Ukraine's only doubled. Yet, Belarus is politically 100% a Russian province. How exactly does your theory explain that gap?

Belarus was rewarded for loyalty. Ukraine was unstable, oligarchic, and increasingly punished for partial exit. Belarus in 2004-2014 is a subsidised client. Ukraine after 2004 Orange Revolution is a contested borderland. They are different mechanisms inside the same imperial political system. Russian dominance can produce short term client-state rents (Russia sells very cheap crude to Belarus, Belarus sells world pri…

So when Russia sells oil for low price - it's rewarding for loyalty, when Russian sells gas for normal price - it's punishment.

What the price of hydrocarbons should be to make you happy?

>then supply interrupted

You might have consumed too much of Western and Ukrainian propaganda, if you re-translate it in 2026, long after Ukrainian lies have been exposed.

"The conflict began when Russia claimed that Ukraine was not paying for gas and was diverting gas bound from Russia to the European Union from pipelines that crossed the country. Ukrainian officials at first denied the last accusation, but later Naftogaz admitted it used some gas intended for other European countries for domestic needs. The dispute peaked on January 1, 2006 when Russia cut off supply.[" [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%932006_Russia%E2%80...

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#888

Post by drysine »

vkou wrote: post #883
Sabinus wrote: post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belarus was rewarded for loyalty. Ukraine was unstable, oligarchic, and increasingly punished for partial exit. Belarus in 2004-2014 is a subsidised client. Ukraine after 2004 Orange Revolution is a contested borderland. They are different mechanisms inside the same imperial political system. Russian dominance can produce short term client-state rents (Russia sells very cheap crude to Belarus, Belarus sells world pri…

You may be onto something with respect to how hegemons and empires operate.

Or maybe it's how customs unions work - when you inside, you benefit from free trade with other members, when you outside - you don't.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#889

Post by victorbjorklund »

rembal wrote: post #465
victorbjorklund wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea. In Poland everyone is a contractor even if they are not in reality. This year Poland had started to indicate they will crack down on it though so a lot of companies are now turning their contractors into employees instead.

They have been indicating it constantly for last 12 years, regardless of who is in power...

Difference is now companies are taking it seriously. Have some insights into hiring in Polish market and more than one IT company are changing who can be a contractor now

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#890

Post by victorbjorklund »

SoKamil wrote: post #335
victorbjorklund wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea. In Poland everyone is a contractor even if they are not in reality. This year Poland had started to indicate they will crack down on it though so a lot of companies are now turning their contractors into employees instead.

Source?

A friend working in HR/Recruitment in Poland. Many tech companies are changing who can now be a contractor.
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