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Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

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Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stanislaus II Augustus was a Russian tool, nobody ever felt in Poland like in ancient Rome. The few scientific achievements from the interwar period are gone forever without heritage or even continuity, and they're not even that impressing comparatively to other European countries. Modern Poles put all money into real estate and crypto scams, that's their intellectual sophistication.

> Stanislaus II Augustus was a Russian tool This is an ahistorical view lacking nuance. Stanislaus found himself in an impossible situation. He was not the Russian pawn you uncharitably make him out to be. Rather, he often used his position to strengthen the Commonwealth in ways that were at odds with Russian interest. Recall that he inherited the throne of a state that was already on its last legs. Russia held a kni…

> I am referring specifically to the educated class - sons of the nobility, magnates, clergy, statesmen, diplomats, senators, scholars, the royal court, even country squires. The szlachta's Sarmatian culture saw itself as a spiritual successor to the Roman Republic, and it showed.

The szlachta's "culture" under leadership of a Russian tool led directly to three partitions which quickly ended their sophisticated "culture".

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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>Many americans suffer from this

I'm a Ukrainian-American who's lived in Ukraine, Poland, and the US; have property/bank accounts in all three countries, and speak three languages and Russian.

The "Americans suffering from this" would be people saying what you just did.

Please read my other comment up the thread where I provide more context.

And please don't presume you have any idea on how others view the world.

>The only other point of reference is Hitler and his modern reincarnation - russians

Sure, let's just ignore the Muller's report which documents Russian collusion when discussing MAGA, let's ignore Russian invasion of Ukraine when discussing Poland, and let's ignore Russia's relationship with Orban, Fico, and PiS when discussing the anti-EU sentiment in the EU (particularly among rural voters).

That will surely give us an enlightened, non-US-centric and non-myopic view. /s

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#733
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> Polish economy grows despite EU membership, not because of it. LOL. Seriously, LOL. You think GDP growth would be HIGHER if not for the access to the common market? What the hell are you talking about? As a Pole, I see such statements as absolutely ridiculous, brain-dead.

Common market is overrated, and the negative impact of EU-imposed taxes and stupid regulations is real. As I said: Polish GDP grew faster before joining EU.

I would be first to vote "leave" if it ever comes to it.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#734
post #576

I live in Poland. This headline is misleading. Poland didn't build a top-20 economy. Western Europe and the US built their economy in Poland, because the labor is educated and cheap. There are almost no globally competitive Polish companies. The "growth" is branch offices of German and American corporations taking advantage of engineers who'll work for 40% of Berlin rates. Remove the foreign-owned sector and you're l…

foreign dollars and euros being spent in the country definitely counts as growth no matter how you slice it and regardless whether you like it or not.

Of course it counts, and should count. Foreign money enters an economy if that economy is producing something the foreigner wants.

A simple bank transfer into the country does not count as domestic Product.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protests in Czechoslovakia came earlier, in 1968! The Soviets rolled in the tanks in response. Poland had a mass solidarity movement rise up in 1980. The USSR didn't decide to send in the military then; they were lucky. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_reaction_to_the_Polish_... There was a lot of unrest in Poland, and general strikes. Martial law was imposed. If you were an immigrant from Czechslovakia in a…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Pozna%C5%84_protests

Even earlier in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_uprising_of_1953

Here in Germany they very often talk about the importance of what happened in Poland for the reunification

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#736
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German working class is actually benefiting from this as Poland it one of their biggest importers now. And they are still benefiting from slave labor, stolen precious metals, and art they got during the WW2. Not to mention the Marshall Plan. They really can't be complaining.

> German working class is actually benefiting from this as Poland it one of their biggest importers now. Yes they do. > And they are still benefiting from slave labor Not sure whether that really matters now-a-days for the economy. > stolen precious metals One of the cores of industrial and mine centers that made the German Empire thrive during the Belle Epoque, are now owned by Poland. > Not to mention the Marshall…

> Sorry, I'm a bit tired of acting like Germany only got the history of being on the west side of the iron curtain. It got both treatments.

Well glass that has half of water is still better that glass fully empty. Poland didn't get any war reparations and after being more destroyed during the war than germany (warsaw burned to the ground) and pretty much occupied for many decades after the war then how polish companies supposed to compete with any western economy including germany?

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#737
I'm Polish.

My mother (early 50s) still remembers clay houses that had two rooms, one for the people, one for the cows and the chickens. She never lived in one, but her grandmother did and she would visit for summer.

She would help her parents stand in line in the evening, waiting for a shipment of pasta or coffee to arrive in their local grocery store in the morning.

My father (similar age) didn't have an in-house bathroom until he got married.

Both of them had black-and-white TVs, where they'd see wonders like microwaves, answering machines or game consoles. Those were things that rich Americans had in movies, not things normal people had in their homes.

If you were well--off enough to go on vacation, you'd probably go to a seaside town, or maybe a village in the mountains. Certainly not abroad. A passport was an extravagance, not easy to get from the communist government.

People who lived in big cities, as opposed to much smaller villages, which were and still are a big thing in Poland, were a bit better off, but not by much.

In the 90s, My parents' village got wired up for telephone. Around that same time, Vietnamese NES clones (here called Pegasus) started popping up on the market. They may have been 15 years behind what the Americans had, but they were available at a price that almost any family could afford.

Shortly after I was born, they got a computer. At that time, computers were still expensive, not something every single family had, but definitely not something unusual for a working / middle class family to purchase. Satellite digital TV soon followed, and then came ADSL internet; because of no flat-rate calls, dial-up never really took off here.

As kids and young teenagers, we looked on iPods and iPhones with envy, those were for the rich, but knock-off mp3 players and cheap Nokia phones were things that many kids had.

Our train company, PKP, was famous for delayed trains and poor service. We used to expand the abbreviation as "Just wait, it'll arrive eventually."

None of this is true any more. Go to any Polish city now, and it's no different from any other European country, maybe except for being a good bit safer. You will see people with iPhones; we're still majority Android, but now that's mostly choice and habit rather than financial necessity. You will see people order food on Uber Eats using their gigabit fiber internet, and then Uber back from a night out. They may not even need to do that; both men and women feel pretty safe on the streets here, even at night. You will see kids playing their favorite games, on their PS5. You will see college students, working on weekends and after classes to make some money, take their boyfriends and girlfriends on trips to Greece, Italy or Spain. By airplane, of course.

That train company? In theory, the reputation is still there, but in practice, the statistics say what they say, we've far surpassed Deutsche Bahn in terms of punctuality.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#738
In the early 2000's I've read about the "next wave", after BRICS, where Poland and Turkey were leading the pack. It was mainly due to the population tree. Both countries did relatively well, as expected. Turkey a bit worse, probably due to politics, changing geostrategic pivots, and strained relations with the big EU market.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and they ALWAYS complain about EU and the economy That's funny because Poland became dramatically richer after joining the EU, it allowed them access to one of the richest markets on Earth. I understand that if you're from a smaller village you might also have missed the enormous infrastructure investments (highways, airports, sewage systems, etc.) that have only been possible because of EU money. Then there's all…

> I understand that if you're from a smaller village you might also have missed the enormous infrastructure investments (highways, airports, sewage systems, etc.) that have only been possible because of EU money. That's the key. There wasn't enough done to ensure that everyone can enjoy the benefits. That why at some point populists won the vote and ruled the country for 8 years. They are still kicking. Recently elec…

You really ought to call out Nawrocki and PiS by name (populist president/party), for all the non-Europeans out there.

For anyone new to Polish politics, here's an easy mnemonic: PiS = piss.

>Fortunately somehow they didn't manage to do significant macroeconomic harm.

Yay for parliamentary systems with proportional representation.

That's how.

Re: Poland is now among the 20 largest economies

#740
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not prosperity, but consumerism . Consumerism causes demographic decline, because it unhinges people's priorities. Their conception of the purpose of life becomes more materialistic, and children compete with that kind of materialistic, self-indulgent consumption. In that sense, the Poles have been seduced by consumerism.

First time I hear this explanation of why demographics is in decline in Europe and it kind of makes sense, every so often having this discussion about having children people bring up that they wont be able to enjoy things anymore, like travel, which in itself is a form of consumerism - buying the "experience"

This is very simplistic and I would say there is more reason than only consumerism. People still might have kids they just have it less - they are happy to have only one kid because they fill fulfilled and also they cannot afford 2 or 3.

Standard and expectation also increased and even thought I grew up with 2 siblings in 2 bedroom apartment in Poland today nobody would want that - or good luck finding a partner that want that. You would expect to have house or at least 3-4 bedroom apartment to raise 3 kids.

Today also probably you need 2 cars instead of 1 family car because your partner also have to work. You probably also need extra money for babysitter or kinder garden because again your partner is working and probably less likely your parents nearby to help since most young people had to move to big cities to get a job.

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