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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#881

Post by bombcar »

subpixel wrote: post #49
Workaccount2 wrote: post #17

It's a shame the Lightning got discontinued. As an EV owner, it sucks that the main thing holding the technology back is misconceptions and misunderstanding, rather than actual practical matters. People think EVs are cars with tanks of electrons, and run aground the same way you would if you thought horses were cars full of hay. It's a different transport tool that gives the same results, you just have to know how to…

I disagree. I really want a Lightning but live in a very rural place, weekend in an even more rural place, and need to pull a trailer pretty often. I already have a plug-in hybrid that gets 40+ miles/charge and have opined all over the internet that the perfect car is one that gets 100+ miles/charge before firing any gas engine. It sounds like the next Lightning will give me that though I don’t put much stock in thei…

Surprisingly to many, rural and very rural places are actually a great location for EVs - if they have enough range.

Because even very rural places have electricity - almost always. I can find quite nice homes that are 20 miles from a gas station, but have power and could easily charge a vehicle. If I lived there, a vehicle I could use without a gas station would be quite desirable.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#882

Post by Der_Einzige »

bluGill wrote: post #241
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pickup truck should just be max utility Except the main demographic buying F150s is suburban dads driving to their office job.

And using the truck on weekends to tow the boat, or do other work with it. Not every weekend, but once a month in summer.

I'll go further, Most Americans who buy stuff like boats don't use them anywhere near enough to justify the purchase. I'm pretty sure well less than 30% of boats are being used at least once a year.

America is so full of hoarding and objects that go years without anyone touching them. It's profoundly sad.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#883

Post by ecshafer »

sgarland wrote: post #834
potato3732842 wrote: post #813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And, like you said, people think that an AWD car will stop faster. The only people I know who think this way are made up people who exist only in the minds of people seeking to validate a purchasing decision.

I remembering driving in a near-blizzard in Connecticut one night (got caught out in it; this wasn’t on purpose), and feeling like this explanation was the only one that made sense. I had a Pontiac G6 at the time, which was a fairly boring FWD sedan. Having learned to drive in Nebraska, I was decent at driving in snow, so I tootled along at about 25 MPH. I was being passed by SUVs and trucks, and then felt vindicated…

Yeah..h as someone in Upstate New York, one of the snowiest places in the country. Snow tires are really what you want. AWD is really nice. BUT end of the day, if you can only go 30 you can only go 30. What really saves you with AWD is when you are dealing with tracks through the snow, AWD makes that a lot easier without spinning out.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#884

Post by a4isms »

b40d-48b2-979e wrote: post #58
a4isms wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A pickup truck should just be max utility A working truck should be max utility. Around the core market of "working trucks," there are various wannabe truck products that do not have to be max utility. For example, a Subaru Brat or a Hyundai Santa Fe. Niche products compared to an F-150, but they had/have their fans. I personally can't stand the design, but the idea of an impractical "halo vehicle" that appeals to…

A *working* truck should be max utility. All trucks should be working trucks. There is no reason to drive something that large and heavy that isn't better served by smaller vehicles that don't damage our shared infrastructure while being safer to drive.

The Subaru Brat was not a large and heavy vehicle, and the Santa Cruz is basically an SUV with a bed instead of a third row. Niche vehicles do not have to be Hummers.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#885

Post by NoGravitas »

everdrive wrote: post #843
vablings wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I cannot speak for rural US as much, I live in a large metropolitan area, and I would estimate around 1/5th cars here are pickups. You can rent a truck from Home Depot for as low as $100 a day.

But you cannot tow with it. Just haul.

You can tow a trailer rented from them, but not your own trailer/boat/whatever.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#886

Post by bombcar »

pixl97 wrote: post #832
alex43578 wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, it massively increases your BOM and maintenance considerations, as now you have to have all the bits of an electric powertrain and most of the bits of a gas powertrain. All for the few times that you’re driving more than 300ish miles in a stretch?

Na, far less bits of a gas powertrain. Generators are are a pretty simple setup.

I guess one way to think about it is imagine a Ford Lightning that has a trailer that can keep it running "indefinitely".

Would you drive around with the trailer all the time? Probably not ...

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#887

Post by NoGravitas »

foobarian wrote: post #209
throwaway173738 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I decide if a truck is utilitarian by whether I have to flag a 2x4x8 in the bed or not.

I can fit one of those into my Ford Fiesta with the hatch closed. :smh:

I used to fairly often carry 2x4x8 and 4x4x8 in a Toyota Matrix (Corolla wagon) with the hatch closed. Couldn't do a full-width sheet of plywood, though.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#888

Post by BobaFloutist »

jmye wrote: post #859
potato3732842 wrote: post #813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And, like you said, people think that an AWD car will stop faster. The only people I know who think this way are made up people who exist only in the minds of people seeking to validate a purchasing decision.

> who exist only in the minds of people seeking to validate a purchasing decision. Don't forget the people who just want to sneer at other people in ill-considered condescension! Plenty of that from the "the world outside the Bay Area and NYC isn't real and none of those people exist" folks.

Now those people absolutely largely exist in the minds of others.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#889

Post by infecto »

Amezarak wrote: post #840
infecto wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we are talking about different things. AWD is a $4k upgrade on a transit. 4wd buys you nothing and at that point it’s more about the tires. Even in cold parts of the US your hvac or plumber is going to be using something like a transit. Very few trade jobs opt for a truck. They don’t make economic sense and impossible to secure anything in the bed. Sure landscaping crews can utilize trucks but even then, your m…

> They don’t make economic sense and impossible to secure anything in the bed. I've never seen or known a trademan that drove a van. They all drive pickups. Maybe this is a regional thing.

What region of the US are you in. I have lived in the south east, Midwest, NY, CA, TX and vans are the norm for most trade jobs outside of landscaping or jobs that can actually benefit from an open bed. HVAC, plumbing, electricians and the like all have equipment that is a lot easier to organize and safely store inside of a van. Now sometimes depending on the type of work that person does they may opt for a high roof and I have seen some opt for the chassis cab and go with a third party body that gives even more room but still enclosed and may even choose the van chassis.

I am quite surprised to hear you have never seen an electrician use a van. That said there are certainly specialities where it’s more common.

90% of trade work is all on pavement and trucks suck for tools. If you are a logger yeah sure you may be using a truck to get to your equipment, similarly for lineman but for the vast majority of trade jobs companies opt for commercial vans. You are describing trade work like it’s the tv show landman.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#890

Post by WorldMaker »

pbmonster wrote: post #791
WorldMaker wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are the worst of both worlds: not enough battery range to satisfy on long trips plus the weight and maintenance headaches of a gas tank and engine, especially silly to lug that around if 90% of your trips are in battery range. As a 2012 Volt owner I think EREV was a great idea in the 2010s given battery tech and networks at the time. In the 2020s, they seem a weak compromise that I wouldn't recommend to people.

> especially silly to lug that around if 90% of your trips are in battery range The same argument works for large batteries, right? On 90% of your trips, you're lugging around several hundred pounds of battery you're not using. If you want to tackle the weight argument, you could always drop 40 kWh battery capacity from the truck. That frees up around 600 lbs you can now use for the genset. The maintenance thing is a…

Which is part of why I think Range is often a distraction in EV discussions. The people asking for 600+ mile Range EVs may see those built because it always sounds like there are plenty of people "demanding" that, but the weight trade-off in batteries isn't going to make those great cars, most of that range will be "waste" given average trips. But it is easier to get to 600+ miles of range by adding more (and better) batteries than by making larger gas tanks and engines.
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