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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#881

Post by lazyeye »

shadowgovt wrote: post #877
lazyeye wrote: post #875

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Media bias largely in terms of both polling but also ridiculously partisan coverage where absolutely everything, no matter what, is framed in a negative way with respect to Trump. How do you explain the very low Democrat approval ratings? Democrats have been very vocal and aggressive in their opposition to Trump.

Help me understand how deporting a 4-year-old cancer patient should be framed in a positive way. The executive has broad leeway regarding deportation process and priorities; help me understand how sending out his parents and sending him out with them is supposed to be interpreted and understood by the American people.

[flagged]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#882

Post by lazyeye »

shadowgovt wrote: post #877
lazyeye wrote: post #875

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Media bias largely in terms of both polling but also ridiculously partisan coverage where absolutely everything, no matter what, is framed in a negative way with respect to Trump. How do you explain the very low Democrat approval ratings? Democrats have been very vocal and aggressive in their opposition to Trump.

Help me understand how deporting a 4-year-old cancer patient should be framed in a positive way. The executive has broad leeway regarding deportation process and priorities; help me understand how sending out his parents and sending him out with them is supposed to be interpreted and understood by the American people.

[flagged]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#883

Post by lazyeye »

shadowgovt wrote: post #877
lazyeye wrote: post #875

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Media bias largely in terms of both polling but also ridiculously partisan coverage where absolutely everything, no matter what, is framed in a negative way with respect to Trump. How do you explain the very low Democrat approval ratings? Democrats have been very vocal and aggressive in their opposition to Trump.

Help me understand how deporting a 4-year-old cancer patient should be framed in a positive way. The executive has broad leeway regarding deportation process and priorities; help me understand how sending out his parents and sending him out with them is supposed to be interpreted and understood by the American people.

I'm unable to reply.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#884

Post by worik »

tremon wrote: post #809
worik wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That means there is not only legitimacy, but necessity, in the opposition to begin deploying violence as a political tactic as well. No. It. Does. Not. Violence begets violence, and it is all our interests to fight against violence wherever, whenever. Fight fire, with water

Violence begets violence Why is it that this mantra is only ever employed to discourage opposition, but never to explain the logical consequence of violence employed by the government?

> Why is it that this mantra is only ever employed to discourage opposition, but never to explain the logical consequence of violence employed by the government?

Because it is not

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#885

Post by oblio »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #664
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone who down voted this comment please explain why? Is this because you do not agree with his general stance or because it simplifies and doesn't contribute to the debate?

I think birthright citizenship is one of the few examples of America doing something strictly better than most other countries.

Why? Why should someone be a citizen because they were born in a specific country? With jus sanguinis things are much clearer: one of your parents is a citizen, you're a citizen. Your kids are citizens. In perpetuity.

Jus solis is a bit like right of way at American intersections: the person that's been there the longest goes first. Whaaaaaa? What if two cars arrive at the same time? What if 4 arrive at roughly at the same time? What is people can't agree who arrived first? A lot of the rest of the world gives way to the car coming from the right. Which is obvious and basically non-negotiable.

Similar idea here.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#886

Post by AustinDev »

lazyeye wrote: post #883
shadowgovt wrote: post #877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me understand how deporting a 4-year-old cancer patient should be framed in a positive way. The executive has broad leeway regarding deportation process and priorities; help me understand how sending out his parents and sending him out with them is supposed to be interpreted and understood by the American people.

I'm unable to reply.

Five of this user's comments, which appeared harmless from a moderation perspective, were flagged and removed.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#887

Post by lazyeye »

shadowgovt wrote: post #877
lazyeye wrote: post #875

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Media bias largely in terms of both polling but also ridiculously partisan coverage where absolutely everything, no matter what, is framed in a negative way with respect to Trump. How do you explain the very low Democrat approval ratings? Democrats have been very vocal and aggressive in their opposition to Trump.

Help me understand how deporting a 4-year-old cancer patient should be framed in a positive way. The executive has broad leeway regarding deportation process and priorities; help me understand how sending out his parents and sending him out with them is supposed to be interpreted and understood by the American people.

This is exactly the kind of media bias I'm talking about. Given the millions of illegals the Dems allowed into the country to sway the voter demographics in their favour, when you are trying to undo the extraordinary damage that this caused (massive levels of fentanyl flowing in, violent gangs establishing territory, extraordinary burden on the taxpayer, sex-trafficking on a large scale etc etc) you will always find some deportation outlier you can focus on in a negative way. It's purely just a numbers thing.

Notice how little focus the mainstream media (and people like you) give to the victims of violent illegals crime, the fentanyl overdoses etc etc.

Also we both know if the parents were sent home without the child, the media would be then accusing the administration of holding the child to ransom and so on.

You didn't answer my question about the Dems low approval rating?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#888

Post by shadowgovt »

lazyeye wrote: post #887
shadowgovt wrote: post #877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me understand how deporting a 4-year-old cancer patient should be framed in a positive way. The executive has broad leeway regarding deportation process and priorities; help me understand how sending out his parents and sending him out with them is supposed to be interpreted and understood by the American people.

This is exactly the kind of media bias I'm talking about. Given the millions of illegals the Dems allowed into the country to sway the voter demographics in their favour, when you are trying to undo the extraordinary damage that this caused (massive levels of fentanyl flowing in, violent gangs establishing territory, extraordinary burden on the taxpayer, sex-trafficking on a large scale etc etc) you will always find…

Dems have a low approval rating because they aren't President. They're in Congress, and all of Congress has a low approval rating. Perhaps worth noting: it is higher as of late (https://news.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx), which correlates to AOC and Sanders touring against Trump's policies. We'll see if that trend continues. Bad news for Trump if it does.

(Actually, the question is kind of leading; it's worth noting that overall, approval of the whole party, Dem and GOP, is mostly disapprove and only differs by four points or so. America isn't satisfied, as a country, with either party).

Fentanyl is unrelated to immigration. Most fentanyl comes from China, so I don't know why immigration (which is mostly from countries south of the US) is being mentioned. Gangs are only tangentially related to immigration; most US gangs are home-grown. I don't approve of gang violence; I just don't think stymying immigration decreases gang violence. If anything, it gives gangs another powerful card to play: their capacity to move people over the border illegally is only of value if it's hard for people to move over the border. Counterintuitively, you can probably break the back of a lot of gang authority by just handing out day-passes like water at the Southern border.

You are, of course, completely disregarding the third option between "deport with the children" and "deport without the children," which is "don't deport at all." But that doesn't satisfy the need to make America ours again, does it?

I believe we both have our answer. You believe these measures are helping, and are willing to sacrifice the welfare of a few children to see them through. I am not in the same position.

If you'd like to share, I'd be interested in the media you are reading that suggests that fentanyl, sex trafficking, and gang activity will be improved improved or ameliorated by mass deportations. You're right that I haven't seen that in the media I consume, and I'm curious where the meme comes from. Do we have evidence or is it more an instance of we must do something, this is a thing, therefore let's do it?

> purely just a numbers thing

When we start reducing human beings to "a numbers thing," we are going down a very dark path.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#889

Post by vessenes »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #856
vessenes wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SCOTUS ruled on this over a hundred years ago, in the case of a child born in the US of Chinese immigrants who went to China in his 30s, and was denied re-entry. Denial theory: Chinese citizens are subject to the Chinese emperor annd therefore aren’t subject to the jurisdiction of the US. SCOTUS response: “LOL”. 6-2 (1 abstention) in favor of him being a citizen. The majority assent lays out pretty clearly that the j…

This is a good example and it puts the current de facto interpretation of the law very friendly towards birthright citizenship. However, as you well said, this is the interpretation of the amendment at the time based on that particular case. The SCOTUS ruling is based the understanding of the 14th amendment for that particular case. Laws are re-interpreted based on originalist or expansionist understanding of the law…

I hear that, and this is no doubt headed to the Roberts court. That said, this would to my eyes need to be interpreted as an expansionist "new interpretation" decision by all counts if we're getting rid of birthright citizenship; caselaw, US practice before and after the Ark case (for 100 years!) and the UK Common Law basis of US law (done away with in the 80s by a new law: see https://openyls.law.yale.edu/bitstream/handle/20.500.13051/7... for much, much more detail), which had hundreds of years of birthright citizenship all point pretty strongly at this being unilaterally understood a certain way here in the US so far.

That Yale article points out European countries have more traditionally relied on "jus sanguinis" -- parentage-based nationality, where UK, US and LatAm countries are mostly "jus soli" with "sanguinis" additions for, say, kids born in foreign countries to nationals.

Anyway - it would be pretty surprising to hear that this is not a reframe. I'll be reading the case with interest.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#890

Post by digitaltrees »

remarkEon wrote: post #777
digitaltrees wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re approaching bad faith. Was the stock market at historic highs. Yes Was inflation falling and the lowest in the OECD. Yes I am not going to go point by point. And they aren’t “true at the margins” when taken together as a whole. They are a manifestation of a broad policy that created improved conditions in the country that would have continued. And the CHIPS act was the exact policy to set us in the course for…

Eh, I think you're mostly arguing with a strawman, and want to make points that have nothing to do with what is being discussed.

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