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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#881

Post by stjohnswarts »

chrisco255 wrote: post #843
newaccount7 wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I created a new account for this to avoid linking personal information... I had blood clots in my lungs last week a few days after getting the J&J vaccine. I'm an otherwise totally healthy man in my 30s, no preconditions. The hospital reported it to the vaccine reporting agency, which I assume is reviewing all this information. I'm not sure if they considered my case when making this decision. My clots were differ…

These are not vaccines. They are gene therapy marketed as vaccines. No one has any clue as to their long term side effects. The under 30 odds of death for Covid-19 are statistically zero percent. The rush to inject a brand new medication into the entire world pop without regards for individual risk profile is ridiculous, reckless, madness.

They are vaccines and you should update your knowledge. Herd immunity needs to happen or our economy and health will be suffering for years. The chance of complications is also basically zero. If you want to chicken out and not get one that's fine, but don't spread disinformation. The mRNA vaccine is not gene therapy. Again you are spreading misinformation with that. Stop reading right wing trash sites and read some science sites.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#882

Post by stjohnswarts »

TrevorJ wrote: post #775
titzer wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people applied this much caution to the virus. Who knows what cancers it causes 10 years down the road.

Do any corona-family viruses cause cancers that we know of?

You mean proteins if you're talking modern/pfizer. It's literally triggered by one protein that matches a protein on the covid membrane. Everything in life is a chance, just stepping out and getting some sun puts you at risk for skin cancer yet still people have been doing it for a couple million years.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#883

Post by baud147258 »

regextegrity wrote: post #790
Izkata wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CDC only tracks actual suicides, not attempts. Suicidal thoughts and attempts are up: https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/12/16/pediatricssu... Besides, in the CDC table, "unintentional injuries" is up by way more than suicides are down. This includes things like car accidents, and is a little suspicious, like suicidal behavior led to a death that wasn't classified as suicide. Also note that the table is "d…

If attempts are up but actual suicides are down, did we just get way worse at suicide?

everyone is at home, so perhaps there's less people alone long enough to commit suicide?

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#884

Post by haswell »

blub wrote: post #821
js2 wrote: post #702

The risk of dying from a blood clot after receiving the J&J vaccine is six in 6,800,000 (6.8M). The world population is 7,900,000,000 (7.9B). If everyone on the planet got the J&J vaccine tomorrow, and if it is the cause of the clots, then 6,971 people would die from the vaccine. Yesterday, Covid19 killed 8,803 people (according to worldometers). We don't want anyone to die from vaccination, and we don't fully unders…

"Now, your risk of dying either from vaccination or Covid19 depends on various demographic factors not accounted for in my math above. But, nonetheless, the risk of dying from the J&J vaccine is really, really, really tiny." Unless this is a repeat of AstraZeneca, where many were lamenting the interruption of vaccination and calculating the risk for the entire population of people injected with AZ. Meanwhile, in some…

> the risk of dying from the vaccine for young women was higher than the risk of dying from the virus

Do you have a good source you'd recommend for this? I couldn't find this bit of info from the first few articles I skimmed.

> After the concerns about AZ turned out to be justified and AZ being banned for certain age groups you'd think that people would get a clue about unconditional vaccine cheerleading.

Who is unconditionally cheerleading which vaccines?

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#885

Post by jopsen »

fastball wrote: post #362
gnfargbl wrote: post #261

For AstraZeneca and not J&J, but these slides from the University of Cambridge do a better job of communicating the balance of risks than I possibly could: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Yeah, the problem though is that we have a Tragedy of the Commons situation on our hands. There is a non-negligible portion of the population that wants to have its cake and eat it too – reduce the risk that they will suffer health consequences from COVID-19 by letting everyone else get the vaccine, but not getting the vax themselves, therefore putting their risk from vax at zero.

(A) vaccination means less social distancing sooner. Lots of people are interested that.

(B) covid-19 might very well become endemic. Like how the common cold is always around. It's not so bad if we're vaccinated. But for those that don't get vaccinated hurd immunity might not cover them.

In practice: I think we just need to be honest about the risk of vaccines. And say that taking it is the patriotic thing to do :)

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#886

Post by stjohnswarts »

TrevorJ wrote: post #855
lupire wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every day, 300 people in USA get a blood clot. It's not wanted, but it's expected. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dvt/features/blood-clot-risk.html

I had wondered about this as well - in the pool of people who have gotten the J&J vaccine, how many would we expect to have developed a blood clot under normal circumstances anyway?

That's exactly what they'll be studying to see if it's statistically relevant. They're being super cautious. Some would say over cautious but I think it's fine since J&J is currently only 5-10% of the vaccine supply going out. Which means a slight slow down in vaccine supply but not as big a deal as AZ in Europe since that is their main supply.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#887

Post by loveistheanswer »

mujina93 wrote: post #813
TrevorJ wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The risk of dying from a blood clot after receiving the J&J vaccine is six in 6,800,000 (6.8M) that we know of . I suspect the lack of understanding about what is happening, and what other knock-on effects there might be is what is behind this. If a wing falls off of one airplane in a million, we still stop and try to figure out what happened because as far as we know, wings are not supposed to fall off any airplane…

But airplaines are engineered by humans, we know everything about how they are supposed to work until the last bit of physics. We don't have the same absolute understanding of mechanisms with vaccines. Therefore, I am not sure we can use this metaphore to suggest that it is the right choice in this terrible time to stop vaccinations, causing slowdowns to happen and scepticism to spread in the population that is bomba…

>But airplaines are engineered by humans, we know everything about how they are supposed to work until the last bit of physics.

>We don't have the same absolute understanding of mechanisms with vaccines.

Having even less knowledge about how vaccines and our immune systems work seems like reason to be even more cautious, not less cautious.

Especially considering the fact that autoimmune disorders have been on the rise for decades, and we don't know why.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#888

Post by stjohnswarts »

wincy wrote: post #768
js2 wrote: post #702

The risk of dying from a blood clot after receiving the J&J vaccine is six in 6,800,000 (6.8M). The world population is 7,900,000,000 (7.9B). If everyone on the planet got the J&J vaccine tomorrow, and if it is the cause of the clots, then 6,971 people would die from the vaccine. Yesterday, Covid19 killed 8,803 people (according to worldometers). We don't want anyone to die from vaccination, and we don't fully unders…

I went to the emergency room for earth shattering headaches (no history of headaches like this) after getting the J&J vaccine last week. I mentioned I’d got the vaccine and asked if it was possible the two were linked. The doctor did everything but actually roll his eyes and thought that the headache being caused by the vaccine was ridiculous. I bet if I went today he wouldn’t be so dismissive.

Did you have a blood clot? Temporal proximity doesn't necessarily mean "cause", usually just a coincidence.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#889

Post by stjohnswarts »

dheera wrote: post #736
js2 wrote: post #702

The risk of dying from a blood clot after receiving the J&J vaccine is six in 6,800,000 (6.8M). The world population is 7,900,000,000 (7.9B). If everyone on the planet got the J&J vaccine tomorrow, and if it is the cause of the clots, then 6,971 people would die from the vaccine. Yesterday, Covid19 killed 8,803 people (according to worldometers). We don't want anyone to die from vaccination, and we don't fully unders…

Why is everyone worried about blood clots, and not that the J&J vaccine has a crap-tastic efficiency of 66.3%? Would you want the chef at your local takeout to be vaccinated to 66.3% efficiency? or 94%? Why was this vaccine even approved, instead of just having J&J produce the same vaccine Pfizer and Moderna are making, which would be in the best interest of the world? Is this some utterly idiotic capitalism bullshit…

Do your research dude. It basically results in essentially 100% non-hospitalization which is the big deal, not whether you get a fever and cough a bit. I can't imagine how anyone would miss that little factoid if they read at all about the J&J vaccine before saying it's useless. Again do a little reading.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#890

Post by chrisco255 »

jjulius wrote: post #871
chrisco255 wrote: post #857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea, those people received this treatment 2 months ago. You absolutely have no clue what long term effects are one year out, five years out, 10 years out. Stop violating people's human rights to make their own individual medical choices. Their body, their choice, none of your business.

>Stop violating people's human rights to make their own individual medical choices. What are you even referring to? Literally no one has to get a vaccine if they don't want it. Nobody in the comment chain you're replying in had advocated for forced innoculation. This is 100% already a "their body, their choice" situation.

Fine, then what issue do you have with my comment? Pressuring or rushing to inject people who have no statistical risk is just adding to the overall risk equation

And when I hear rumblings of vaccine passports and all this nonsense in the news and I see some people's general attitude towards Covid vaccination: you're either for it or you're a flat earthling neophyte.

At any rate, point I'm trying to make:

There's less than 3700 deaths for Under 34 year olds in the United States, from Covid19 [1].

And that number will go down with every year that passes from here on out, because a broader percentage of that demographic already has herd immunity. In fact, there's much more important health problems to focus on for those demographics. Suicide, heart disease, homicide, car accidents, liver disease, diabetes, etc.

Population under 34: 148M Covid19 deaths under 34 in first year of existence, with no immunity in population: 3710

Flu & pneumonia deaths for pop under 34 in 2018 was 1857 [3].

Odds of dying of Covid19 under 34 in first year of its existence: .0025%

Odds of long-term consequences from RNA therapy from AZ, J&J, or Pfizer treatment: ???

Unknown. It could increase your odds of having a stroke at in 10 years. No one knows. If it's causing blood clots, that's a distinct possibility.

[1] https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/c... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the... [3] https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/leading_causes_of_dea...

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