MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies • Hacker News Board

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#881

Post by ValentineC » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

hackissimo123 wrote: post #215

tobias3 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the EU, credit card transaction fees are capped at 0,3%. So no shenanigans, but cryptocurrencies would have to fall within this range as well.

Is that the case in the whole EU? Because my AmEx gives me 1% cashback here in the UK, and that's been true since long before Brexit.

Non-partner Amex's are considered "three party card schemes", and therefore not subject to the interchange caps [1].

This means that there's a chance your merchant has been paying more for each Amex payment.

[1] https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/201...

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#882

Post by splintercell » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 7:30 PM UTC

tboyd47 wrote: post #846

splintercell wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can, and are, holding stablecoins [1] 1. https://businessday.ng/sponsored/article/how-nigerians-are-u...

> Stablecoins enjoy a one-to-one ratio. For Nigerians, this means stablecoin prices are pegged to a certain ratio with the U.S. dollar. I'm new to stablecoins and trying to understand the situation. Is this not the same thing Brazil did with the URV [0] -- that is, replacing their ruined state currency with a temporary one pegged to the USD -- only coming from the private sector instead of the government? > Other ben…

There are multiple ways to achieve stablecoins.

- centralized issuing authority backs the coins with dollars, here although the trust is the same as in a central authority, for people in Nigeria and Brazil, its asymmetric compared to people in the US. For Americans, a central authority is a central authority. For Nigerians, a central authority in US (or Carribean etc) is vastly different from a central authority in Nigeria. Example: USDC, USDT, PAX

- Seigniorage-style stablecoins, these coins try to algorithmically issue or reduce the total coins to keep the price stable. This seems to have never worked. Most stablecoins in this design failed.

- collateralized stablecoins - These stablecoins try to hold a certain amount of collateral in 'unstable' currency (like ETH/BAT etc) and try to maintain that collateral. If the price of the stablecoin moves away from $1, then it creates profit opportunities for people to benefit from it and help bring the price down. For example: Dai, Havven. These are experimental but seems to be working well.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#883

Post by vntok » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

pertymcpert wrote: post #824

vntok wrote: post #816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, you are therefore incentivized to spend that money in objects or services that will bring in more value to you than the risk-free "interest" or gains brought by the mere deflation. Ergo, smarter investments.

No, it disincentivizes investments full stop. People aren’t making dumb investments deliberately. You don’t get any new information about whether an investment is smart or not based on your currency being deflationary.

In developed countries (ex in Europe), fiat currency officially loses at least 2% of its worth each year on average (or you yourself lose 2% worth of purchasing power every year, depending on how you see it). In reality it's much more of course.

Bitcoin gains 200% of its worth each year on average.

Owning bitcoin, any investment you make that brings home more than 200% a year (+ fin. taxes - fiat inflation) when risk-adjusted is worth making.

Anything else is an objective loss, so you want to really assess what it will bring you subjectively before making it.

In other words, "given that you are basically paid by the financial system to hold bitcoin, any bitcoin you spend should be for something that you value more than what it pays", i.e a smarter investment.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#884

Post by simiones » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 8:05 PM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #856

simiones wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so no one can steal my crypto. But what if they accept my payment, and then they don't give me the items I payed for? Or vice versa - if I'm selling something and I give them the item, but they don't initiate the payment? What if the company I work for isn't transferring the BTC in our contract at the end of the month, because they ran out because their own customers haven't been paying? With a regular currency,…

Commerce generally works quite well, to the point that it works even when there is no legal compulsion to not cheat. Bad actors are ostracized while good actors build followings, leading to reputation acting as an effective mechanism to find good actors to trade with, and incentivize people to become good actors. In any case, when people are free to choose between government-recognized currency and non-governmental d…

Yes, in a functioning economy. Here we are discussing what happens as an economy breaks down - as people stop being able to pay their debts, for various reasons.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#885

Post by nexthash » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 8:37 PM UTC

rantwasp wrote: post #869

Gibbon1 wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> supply chain management with a lot of entities and lack of trust. This tells me you know zero about supply chain management.

hmm. if you ever had to deal with a supply chain and understand all the moving parts you cannot make the argument above with a straight face.

Oh, and would you mind explaining to us your experience with supply chain management?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#886

Post by herbst » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 10:10 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #84

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

A coffee in switzerland costs you 5 usd today when it cost 4 usd a few years back. Stable really is relative even with major currencies.

I dont hold USD because it relatively loses in value for months and years now.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#887

Post by chordalkeyboard » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #602

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inflation adjusted $/sqft on average across the US housing costs exactly the same as it did in the 1970s. > Inflation adjusted Inflation is a result of monetary policy. So when you’ve adjusted the price for the monetary policy, you see that 50 years of capital accumulation and efficiency has been soaked up by monetary policy. > I admit I misspoke, because of course, monetary policy controls interest rates, but I ma…

>I’m not sure how to proceed. The notion that one could print money and have each currency unit correspond to the same amount of physical goods is prima facie false. The entire problem is that it's not false at all. There are various ways to produce more physical goods without employing more domestic workers. Every time the fed is printing money that money gets invested in a way that does not result in decreased unem…

> The entire problem is that it's not false at all. There are various ways to produce more physical goods without employing more domestic workers. Every time the fed is printing money that money gets invested in a way that does not result in decreased unemployment. It's being used to produce more physical goods which keeps the price of physical goods constant.

I was unclear and I should have included ceteris paribus, but you’re correct. The fed keeps the price of goods constant when it should be decreasing.

> Ultimately the only truly scarce "good" is labor. Everything derives from it. If prices are not rising that means labor is not scare at all, which is idiotic because there are lots of ways to productively deploy that labor.

Raw materials are also truly scarce, and you’ve neglected to apply the same level of analysis here as you did above.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#888

Post by herbst » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 10:15 PM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #528

tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that this aspect of the conversation so often gets replaced by everything else. This is (IMO) the most important point about digital currency - the promise of providing consumers in unstable economies the chance to convert to a more stable currency without government intrusion. We're still not there, but that should be the north star for crypto (again, in my opinion).

Why is encouraging people in such countries to use better than making the US Dollar more accessible to these people? If stability is the goal, I find it hard to accept that DogeCoin is the answer to the developing/third world's economic problems.

How is usd tho? Sure its more stable than bitcoin, but in the last months and years it relatively lost value to eur/chf when bitcoin only increased. Both solutions have issues however only one made holding money lucrative

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#889

Post by herbst » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

nexthash wrote: post #586

waprin wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think cryptocurrency was a solution in search of a problem, but the Robinhood fiasco has made me think otherwise. I find their clearing house explanation woefully insufficient in details, and open to the possiblity of being technically the truth but misleading (for example, they gave mass margin to lots of new accounts so they technically lacked collateral, but if they stopped new signups then cleared cash…

Call me back when crypto is being used for anything normal - buying groceries, homes, pay checks, etc rather than trading and speculation. As of now, if my job attempts to pay me in DogeCoin I will quit and file a complaint with the NLRB. The thing is, no matter how much you think the current financial system is crooked, there is always a way to settle disputes through courts and regulators. The worst financial hiccu…

In switzerland both our national amazon alternative (relatively huge) and main food delivery network accept bitcoin and several other crypto currencies. Including weird stuff like Tron and Monero.

I spend more in crypto some months than other currencies.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#890

Post by jkepler » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #440

jkepler wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What historical period are you referring to? If you look at the first 200 years of US history, for example, there was plenty of real world growth on spite of slow price deflation. Gold and silver jointly backed the banking system until the Federal reserve started the current USD system in 1913. In much of the rest of the world, the 40 years prior to WW1 were largely characterized by economic growth, while on an inter…

The pre ww1 world was probably too different from today to draw lessons applicable today and in any case there were recessions every few years back then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_Unit... Gold tied assets hoarding caused the great depression.

Thanks for your response.

Perhaps the pre-WW1 period is too different from today because we're still living in the 100-year+ experiment if central banks and applied Keynesian theory. If the Austrian school's business cycle theories are correct, recessions are longer and more painful under central banks' manipulated monetary markets because malinvestments are rarely cleared from the economy: those enterprises get bailed out instead, and taxpayers foot the bill.

Do you have a source for asserting that people saving gold caused the great depression?