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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#881

Post by anoncake »

pmcollins wrote: post #296
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

What if you take the App Store to an extreme? Say, the App Store is so successful that iPhones and Macs are almost free -- paid for by the lifetime expected amount Apple will make from any and all apps sold on those devices. Would this be bad for the consumer? I feel like this is Apple's perspective: the app store subsidizes devices and helps consumers. OTOH, the thing about Epic is I think they're incredibly generou…

Prices are signal, they must match the cost of the product. Otherwise the customer can't properly decide whether it's worth it.

Subsidizing phones with app revenue means customers buy phones even though the benefit they gain from them is lower than the cost of the phone. Conversely, they don't buy apps when the benefit would have outweighed the cost.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#882

Post by Razengan »

mapcars wrote: post #878
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

Apple is against freedom like since the beginning, I don't understand how anybody can use any of their products.

Because their products are often very good in many ways and their policies protect users from many unscrupulous developers and companies.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#883

Post by mojuba »

fastball wrote: post #807
mojuba wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. Sure, the App Store and its services however are not the user's property.

Right, but Apple prohibits the installation of apps that are not from their app store.

True, but you are free to install only free apps, or no apps, or only your own apps pushed directly onto the phone. In fact you are free to fully operate without iCloud/AppStore (if I'm not mistaken)

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#884

Post by CrazyCatDog »

hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

> It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users.

This would suggest that Apple is shooting itself in the foot—which is exactly the opposite of antitrust policy. Put simply: Apple’s behavior seems to be hurting itself and benefiting competitors (Samsung/Google) which, broadly speaking, would seem like an uphill battle for anyone arguing to open up the iOS ecosystem.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#885

Post by McDyver »

wheelie_boy wrote: post #285
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. You don't have to worry about viruses. You don't have to worry about spending a lot of time being a system administrator, and just use it. You don't even have to worry about many types of malware, because the system protects you from poorly-behaved applicatio…

> If it was possible to side-load apps, then those advantages go out the window.

Who's to say what constitutes an advantage? From this discussion, half the people here consider it to be an advantage to having the possibility to load whatever they want on their phone, and have control over it.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#886

Post by nicexe »

philliphaydon wrote: post #860
ralfn wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because its the sort of above most transaction fees of most payment providers in the world. But Apple can ask whatever they want. They can't block side-loading though. That's the uncompetitive part. You can run your store and pick whatever terms you like. You can't use your marketshare in hardware sales to bundle a forced store. Imagine Tesla charging you 30% of any grocery shopping (i.e. would refuse to open the doo…

I don't want side-loading apps on iPhone. The moment you allow side-loading you can no longer trust the apps on a phone. Is it really facebook or was facebook removed and replaced with something else.

To side-load an app on an iPhone you need to sign it with a developer certificate (and apple will actually do it for you). You can only run the app if you trust said certificate (you will get a prompt saying something like going in the settings, tapping on the developer name and then tapping "Trust". You would then need to confirm using your passcode/faceid/touchid). It's not like anyone can put apps on your phone and being able to launch them without any friction.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#887

Post by CloudNetworking »

ralfn wrote: post #827
vogre wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. What makes you think that 3% cut is enough?

Because its the sort of above most transaction fees of most payment providers in the world. But Apple can ask whatever they want. They can't block side-loading though. That's the uncompetitive part. You can run your store and pick whatever terms you like. You can't use your marketshare in hardware sales to bundle a forced store. Imagine Tesla charging you 30% of any grocery shopping (i.e. would refuse to open the doo…

> Because its the sort of above most transaction fees of most payment providers in the world.

They're not just a payment provider though. They offer infrastructure, promotion, a huge locked-in userbase with the means to pay for software, etc

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#888

Post by jason0597 »

YarickR2 wrote: post #727
hijklmno wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take the money back and go where? Live in a hut? It's such enabling behaviors that embolden these elitists to lord over our lives. You can't let anyone be a gatekeeper to technology and progress. This applies to every major tech player. And this is the time that we need to make our voices heard.

Found a company. Bring it to success. Build an ecosystem around it . Your voice will be heard, then.

Easier said than done

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#889

Post by tomxor »

tomxor wrote: post #293
fastball wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that a lot of people actually like how hard it is to sideload content onto an iPhone, because it effectively bricks stolen ones, which is a pretty good deterrent.

That same type of control bricks it for you at the OS level when they decide your device is too old (aka you haven't paid them often enough).

When will i learn to not engage with the apologists...

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#890

Post by krrrh »

CarbyAu wrote: post #430

The problem here is Apples user market capture. Through iOS devices Apple has created a market of users they are the very protective gatekeeper for. Windows PC user market. Not locked down. Though MS has a store you have Steam, EGS, GOG, Origin, UBS etc for games alone. Let alone productivity apps. Android market. Not locked down. Though google play store is the gorilla other stores exist. I like F-Droid. EPICS Unrea…

> Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo consoles. I fear they are similar in terms of gatekeepering to users and should be subject to whatever outcome Apple is. They seem a bit more open to begin with though so are likely to be less affected.

These firms invented the mode Apple is using. Consoles have sold at a discount and made up the revenue in licensing since the Atari 2600.

The just released $399 iPhone SE could easily be serviceable 10 years from now given Apple’s track record for providing OS and security updates on older devices. Part of the reason that they can do this is that they can realize revenue from some users late in the phones life.

You don’t see this sort of deal happening in the Android world where the incentives are much more aligned towards more frequent hardware purchases and less long term support. It’s good for consumers to have choice not only in hardware, but also in business models.

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