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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#881

Post by beninvalencia »

I think it should be said to clear things up that EU citizens in the UK are not going to be "chucked out". This is not going to happen and the major political figures have said as much on live broadcast today. Yes, it would be prudent to get indefinite leave to remain if you can or something more solid - whatever you can. But the UK needs you and even if a hardcore right wing lunatic tried to expel you it is completely impractical.

I also noticed some Irish people mentioning they would have to sell their house and leave - please for your sake, look up the official information on Irish/UK rules, you will find that they have freedom of movement regardless of the EU and in fact it goes much, much further than the EU rules.

Specifically: "Unlike other EU citizens, UK citizens may retire to Ireland without having to establish that they have sufficient resources or that they have private health insurance." http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_t...

"Irish citizens automatically have a right to reside in the UK as part of the common travel area. If you were habitually resident in Ireland or any of the other places in the common travel area before you came to the UK, you will automatically satisfy the conditions of the HRT." https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroa...

I think everybody needs to try and calm down. Even though a great many of us would have preferred not to leave, this can be OK.

The UK can easily end up in the EEA which has freedom of movement etc anyway.

This is not the time for panicked reactions!

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#882

Post by sullyj3 »

notahacker wrote: post #619
siscia wrote: post #426

We are all talking about economics but the whole deal is way more noble than mere money. No European ever has never think "woow this shinny $consumer_object is been produced inside the EU so I don't get to pay the import tax" but every single European younger than 50 at least once in its life has open up the Ryanair website and thought "for 30€ I guess this weekend I will be in London/Paris/Berlin/Madrid/Rome". The w…

> The most infuriating thing is that the oldest part of the English population is taking aways these opportunities from the youngest British. I think that's the second most infuriating part of it. The areas of the country that overwhelmingly voted against "unlimited immigration" from Europe have predominantly the ones that barely received any immigrants. Whilst London, which is destination numero uno for EU migrants,…

I'd be very interested in seeing that analysis if you end up making it.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#883

Post by ae_keji »

notacoward wrote: post #766

That's a very strange, and in some cases inaccurate, portrayal of history. * The British were not an external enemy. That would have been the French. For the most part, even the people leading the revolution were proud of being British subjects and would have liked to remain so, but could no longer tolerate the conditions being attached to that status. Our enemy was recognized to be our own cousins, not some external…

You're greatly over simplifying early American politics. Neither the French nor English were a consistent "common enemy". Rather there was extensive debate as to which would be/was a better ally or worse foe, and the US got into conflict with (and conducted mutually beneficial diplomacy with) both on several different occasions in the years after its founding.

(Below are several events in which the early US was aligned with either side, note this changed frequently)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolut...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Alliance_(1778)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adams%E2%80%93On%C3%ADs_Treaty

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamation_of_Neutrality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYZ_Affair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#884

Post by 7Z7 »

Fuxy wrote: post #581
_ph_ wrote: post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

Well that was unexpected but I guess not that unexpected since only British citizens were asked. If all the people living in the UK regardless of citizenship were asked the result would have been different. I wasn't allowed to vote even though I've been living in the UK over 5 years since I'm not a British citizen for example. Edit: if you're going to down-vote at least explain your reasoning.

>..only British citizens were asked.

I'm Irish and I voted, and my wife is from an Asian commonwealth country and she voted. Neither of us are British citizens

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#885

Post by darawk »

thenomad wrote: post #665
darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

I fact-checked this a while ago. The EU is arguably more democratic than the UK, and certainly it's very hard to show it's less so. https://medium.com/im-trying-to-fact-check-brexit/fact-check...

While interesting, i'm not sure that argument is sound. The House of Lords is not the only, or even the most powerful, body involved in law making in the UK. The House of Commons, who is elected, actually proposes and passes laws.

This is in contrast to the EU, where 'legislative initiative', IMO the most important power, is held by the unelected body - the commission / executive branch.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#886

Post by mlu »

Why did they let the people decide in a direct referendum in the first place? That seems like a terrible idea for such a complex matter.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#887

Post by darawk »

wobbleblob wrote: post #858
darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

People like you are repeating that 'anti-democratic' mantra all the time, without really explaining what they mean. When politicians hear people say 'not democratic enough!', they think you mean 'more power to the EU parliament' (elected directly) and less to the European Commission (one member per member state, chosen by your own elected government), but that's not what they want, is it? What they really mean is the…

I don't live in the UK, so I don't have a memory of either condition, except indirectly.

The 'undemocratic' element, I suppose, is that the elected parliament of the EU appears to me to be its weakest component. The commission and the council seem notably more powerful and are both unelected (except quite indirectly).

Now, I don't disagree with you that free travel, trade and relocation are good things. What I don't quite understand is why it was ever necessary to have a European Union in order to achieve that. It seems to me that this could have and should have been achieved without such a heavy-handed institution.

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