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Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

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Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#871

Post by throwawayqqq11 »

chii wrote: post #821
integricho wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so rich hearing that America can attack anybody, but godforbid an attack on the "homeland" is an unforgivable act that will invoke nukes immediately.

that is what it means to be a superpower. Don't be naive and think that there's natural justice and the world is fair.

> When Us attacks Cuba

> Cuba might drone strike US homeland

> Cuba gets flattened

Being a superpower means being free of ethics or reason. 'We are the good' sufficently summarizes a regular US-born worldview.

You also shouldnt be too naive to think, US citizens would bring up ethics or reason when choosing their leaders or commenting on their own countrys aggression.

Why do you think, the world is unfair? Some decades ago, we had a world police.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#872

Post by 8note »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #268
kergonath wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump is choosing to get it over with the easy way for America at least if they won't negotiate That is… not the easy way. That’s how you get a nightmare for decades to come, endless waves of refugees and a limitless supply of terrorists. Though, to be fair, there is no easy way of doing what Trump claims he wants to do. Which is why it’s spectacularly stupid to do it in the first place. I mean, they did not expect…

He could use nukes but it would likely create a fallout.

the firebombings of japan were much more destructive and killed more civilians than the nukes did.

there's no reason to think nuking would do anything more than the existing bombing campaign.

what changed in japan was the soviet army arriving

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#873

Post by throw20260401aa »

throwawayffffas wrote: post #329
somat wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick, what's the difference between a suicide drone and a guided missile?

Cost, production capacity, radar cross section, speed, range, payload. Drone means foam wings, plastic body, propellers, cheap camera, simple inertial navigation, maybe GPS, maybe 10-30 kilogram payload. Guided missile means, metal airframe, jet engine, depending on targets thermal imaging or radar terminal guidance, radar altimeters, terrain imaging radars, 100 - 500 kilogram payload. Remote guidance is a very hard…

[flagged]

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#874

Post by mindslight »

fny wrote: post #747
Animats wrote: post #426

A big mistake here was simply underestimating the scale of Iran. Iran has 90,000,000 people. More than 2x Ukraine. More than 2x Germany. More than 2x Iraq. More than any country in Europe. About 2/3 of Russia. Expecting to win a war on the cheap was a fantasy. Especially since Iran has been fighting Israel for years. On the naval front, Ukraine sunk the Moskva with a few truck-mounted missiles. That finally made it u…

The big mistake was underestimating the appetite for rebellion despite 70%-80% wholesale opposition to the regime.[0] I personally know many, many Iranians who welcome the attacks along with their families. All of the high-profile assassinations involve intelligence from Iranians. However, no one has guns, and government-backed militias roam the streets to maintain order.[1] There is no possibility of military coup.…

> The big mistake was underestimating the appetite for rebellion

I'd frame it as the biggest mistake was underestimating the work required to facilitate a successful rebellion - you have to be ready to go to support the people rebelling. Form support networks ahead of time, airdrop supplies, supplement with small but crucial boots on the ground, etc - all things the domain experts of the "deep state" would classically do [0] before it got smashed under the banner of doggie, anti-woke, juche, or whatever the rallying cry is this month. These chuds thought success and praise would just automatically occur by virtue of them having some innate special quality, like every one of their "plans".

[0] note that I'm having to suppress a bit of a gag here writing sympathetically about the military-industrial complex that foments regime change in other countries. but if we're being honest about what it took to pull off the American-exceptionalist thing we've become accustomed to, this is what it took.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#875

Post by jghn »

petesergeant wrote: post #131
chneu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: Hegseth is a crusader. He is a super zealous religious fanatic who very much wants to destroy as many Muslims as possible. He has a crusades tattoo and openly talks about killing heathens in his WEEKLY SERMON. He might be an idiot alcoholic, but he very much knows what he is doing.

> he very much knows what he is doing Nothing about how this war is going suggests he has any idea what he’s doing as SecWar

> Nothing about how this war is going suggests he has any idea what he’s doing as SecWar

For instance, he doesn't realize his title isn't SecWar. It's SecDef.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#876

Post by coderedart »

pjc50 wrote: post #787
curiousElf wrote: post #474

Must be nice for western arm chair commentators to discuss this without once feeling the consequences of the actions of their elected government. Where I live - we face a severe shortage of LPG fuel due to this. Quite a few restaurants have shut down temporarily. Migrant workers around the parts who have no access to a kitchen because they live in tiny quarters with a bedding and a common toilet are struggling to fin…

Which country is this?

very likely to be India.

- Plenty of sources online about the LPG crisis, as the govt has invoked essential commodities act (gives govt extra powers to crush black market and force companies to prioritize distribution to domestic households over industrial use cases).

- E-commerce like amazon/flipkart have also run out of induction stoves (or selling at a premium like RAM).

- Electricity is a state subject, and two of the south India states (bangalore-KT/hyderabad-TG) offer free electricity up to 200 units for low-income households under "gruha jyothi scheme"

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#877

Post by mindslight »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #662
integricho wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so rich hearing that America can attack anybody, but godforbid an attack on the "homeland" is an unforgivable act that will invoke nukes immediately.

That's how nukes work. When it comes to nuclear weapons, the world is divided into haves and have-nots. Anyone lacking effective nuclear response can be steamrolled by those who do with total impunity. The USA has been attacked before but it has never been invaded and forced to fight a war on its own soil against foreign enemies. It's possible that they unconsciously believe war is something they bring to others, nev…

> It's possible that they unconsciously believe war is something they bring to others, never something others bring to them

Spot on. As an American who is quite critical of the imperialist dynamic, I still catch myself thinking this way. Like "what if Iran actually attacks something around me?" But it's war, shouldn't one expect that an enemy might attack at any point?! Except, we just don't think of war as something that might have direct repercussions for us personally, which is why most of us vote for chucklefuck leaders who start them so readily.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#878

Post by danbruc »

rbanffy wrote: post #802
danbruc wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big mistake was attacking a state in violation of international law.

Any country that can veto a UN resolution is, effectively, immune to international law.

So is everyone with enough power, every law requires enforcement. But even without enforcement or with the ability to outright block laws, being in violation of international law still matters. It informs others whether you truly belief in a rule-based order or whether you only use it as a tool if it benefits you and they will adjust their behavior accordingly. Also if you want support from others, if you are in violation of international law, the others will think twice if they should support you.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#879

Post by switchbak »

jojobas wrote: post #420
switchbak wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carriers have been in question long before this conflict. There's been a big question as to how effective and/or survivable a carrier battle group will be in the South Pacific, especially given China's long range anti-ship missiles. There's been a whole ramp up of very exquisite technology to try to get the upper hand here, but I don't expect we'll see the carrier be the force it has been over the last few generation…

Long-range anti-ship missiles of old are also obsolete, they and their launch problems are also too expensive for their vulnerability. A salvo Shahed-style drones launched from expendable unmanned vessels would overload a carrier group air defences way cheaper than old school ASMs from frigates.

New weaponry poses great challenges for these platforms. I don’t know if a swarm of very slow moving drones would be my biggest concern though.

You can afford to spend a few million when you’re taking down billions of dollars worth of hardware.

I would think a simultaneous barrage of maneuvering hypersonic missiles would pose a much bigger threat. A CIWS or three can take down a lot of slow drones.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#880

Post by duped »

somat wrote: post #293
rustyhancock wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point being made is that before Iranian drone doctrine (they were the originators of the long range drones, the FPV drones and sea drone which have dominated the Ukraine way too). A US CSG could simply sit in the Hormuz strait shoot down any incoming missiles and keep it open. Right now the US has 3 CSG in the middle east and nearly 50000 troops. After weeks of intensive bombing the strait remains closed…

Quick, what's the difference between a suicide drone and a guided missile?

Everyone is saying cost but I thought the defining factor was whether it can loiter
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