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Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

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Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#871

Post by xp84 »

juanre wrote: post #629
daxfohl wrote: post #460

I wonder how the internet would have been different if claws had existed beforehand. I keep thinking something simpler like Gopher (an early 90's web protocol) might have been sufficient / optimal, with little need to evolve into HTML or REST since the agents might be better able to navigate step-by-step menus and questionnaires, rather than RPCs meant to support GUIs and apps, especially for LLMs with smaller contex…

This sounds very plausible. Arguably MCPs are already a step in that direction: give the LLMs a way to use services that is text-based and easy for them. Agents that look at your screen and click on menus are a cool but clumsy and very expensive intermediate step. When I use telegram to talk to the OpenClaw instance in my spare Mac I am already choosing a new interface, over whatever was built by the designers of the…

I've thought about this a lot, even before LLMs - so much about the modern web especially is so slow and bloated. I want the airline to give me an API to query flights and one to book, I don't need 400 nested DIVs of styled components vomited at me every pageview. But everyone considers API access to be "commercial" and are afraid someone else will make money without them getting an extra cut.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#872

Post by michaelmrose »

simondotau wrote: post #612
Razengan wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Being rude isn't helpful. It's not their fault, it's the unavoidable reality of treating complex social signalling as one-dimensional. At minimum Hacker News would need to separate approval/disapproval signals from assessments of whether a comment is constructive. That’s not a simple change given the obvious abuse vectors. It would require reliably distinguishing good-faith participants from bad actors. It can be don…

I really like the idea of multiple vectors although nobody seems apt to pick up the idea other than Slashdot.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#873

Post by aleph_minus_one »

kortilla wrote: post #668
johnfn wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty obviously false? I get downvoted quite frequently on HN for posting comments that go against what people typically think. For instance, I find it quite difficult to discuss the productivity gains of AI because any comment I make saying that AI makes me more productive immediately gets downvotes. I am not making inflammatory comments - my comments with a similar tone about other things that boost my pro…

How does that make it “obviously false”? The community doesn’t want to hear about how AI isn’t working for people on every AI article. That’s the current balance of votes in the community.

> The community doesn’t want to hear about how AI isn’t working for people on every AI article.

The community doesn't want to hear about how AI is the panacea for the problems some people have on every AI article, either.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#874

Post by aleph_minus_one »

javier123454321 wrote: post #864
krzyk wrote: post #829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had exact same issue with it. I don't get it. Integration of LLM with chating services is simple, how does it change anything?

It's simple if you've done that work before, or if you consider yourself little more technical, this is a turnkey solution that does that. I don't understand why people use Gmail. Just get a VPS and set up a SMTP server. Why would anyone use Squarespace you can code an HTML page in a day and upload it to a static site hosting service.

> I don't understand why people use Gmail. Just get a VPS and set up a SMTP server.

This would indeed be a good idea. The problem is that other email providers will often reject your emails (e.g. because they consider your emails to be spam or simply don't trust your server), so this idea is not easy to get to work.

So the next best solution is to use an email provider that is somewhat established (avoiding the mentioned problem), but is more trustable than Google.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#875

Post by PantaloonFlames »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #835
throwaway13337 wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right. And don't forget that the chips it runs on are manufactured by companies I might not agree with. Nor the mining companies that got the metal. Nor the energy company that powers it. The wonderful thing about markets that work is that you can swap things out without being under their boot. I worry about a LLM duopology. But as long as open weight models are nipping at their heels, it is the consumer that…

> In a working market, companies are forced to give consumers what they want. I want personal nuclear weapons, so the market hasn't been working for me. Time to roll back those pesky laws, regulations, and ethical boundaries. Prosecute executives who won't give me what I want.

Cmon man. “Consumers” in aggregate. Not “every consumer”. But you knew that.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#877

Post by PantaloonFlames »

suttontom wrote: post #772
jameslk wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a perfect security model. Between the friction and all caps instructions the model sees, it's a balance between risk and simplicity, or maybe risk and sanity. There's ways I can imagine the concept can be hardened, e.g. with a server layer in between that checks for things like dangerous actions or enforces rate limiting

If all you're doing is telling an LLM to do something in all caps and hoping it follows your instructions then it's not a "security model" at all. What a bizarre thing to rely on. It's like people have literally forgotten how to program.

“AI changes everything!”

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#878

Post by javier123454321 »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #874
javier123454321 wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simple if you've done that work before, or if you consider yourself little more technical, this is a turnkey solution that does that. I don't understand why people use Gmail. Just get a VPS and set up a SMTP server. Why would anyone use Squarespace you can code an HTML page in a day and upload it to a static site hosting service.

> I don't understand why people use Gmail. Just get a VPS and set up a SMTP server. This would indeed be a good idea. The problem is that other email providers will often reject your emails (e.g. because they consider your emails to be spam or simply don't trust your server), so this idea is not easy to get to work. So the next best solution is to use an email provider that is somewhat established (avoiding the menti…

I'm sorry you might have missed the part where I was being sarcastic.

Setting up your own SMTP server is actually literally a bad idea for the most part. Unless you want to debug your own mail server. Which, I promise you, 99% of users using gmail do not, and should not.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#879

Post by PantaloonFlames »

hamburglar wrote: post #514
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is absolute madness. I disabled most of Windows' scheduled tasks because I don't want automation messing up my system, and now I'm supposed to let LLM agents go wild on my data? That's just insane. Insanity. Edit: I mean, it's hard to believe that people who consider themselves as being tech savvy (as I assume most HN users do, I mean it's "Hacker" news) are fine with that sort of thing. What is a person…

The computer nerds understand how to isolate this stuff to mitigate the risk. I’m not in on openclaw just yet but I do know it’s got isolation options to run in a vm. I’m curious to see how they handle controls on “write” operations to everyday life. I could see something like having a very isolated process that can, for example, send email, which the claw can invoke, but the isolated process has sanity controls such…

I don’t understand how “running it in a vm” Or a docker image, prevents the majority of problems. It’s an agent interacting with your bank, your calendar, your email, your home security system, and every subscription you have - DoorDash, Spotify, Netflix, etc. maybe your BTC wallet.

What protection is offered by running it in a docker container? Ok, It won’t overwrite local files. Is that the major concern?

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#880

Post by fullstackchris »

aeve890 wrote: post #639
kovek wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is there to be furious about?

Managers will be starting to ask for claws in the development flow, claws for automation, etc. Another flashy trend everyone will have to endure because an influencer is hyping the tech. It happened in 2024/2025. Every manager demanding use of "vibe coding", because they bought the lie that is what everyone is doing and is the best thing since sliced bread and whatnot. Karpathy comes up with a new shit to hype, and e…

You put this in much better words than I obviously could!
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