Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#871

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #860

jacquesm wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far he's made the right call though. Note when it was written, and what has happened since.

Predicting that somebody stupid would do something stupid after the last election does not make one Nostradamus. He also claims that Trump is refusing to leave and is leveraging the military to facilitate that. That's bunk.

It's bunk because the military didn't play ball, not because it wasn't tried.

What's mostly bunk here is that you think that this is behind you and I am not willing to accept that until we have seen one, and preferably two transfers of power without mishap, preferably in both directions.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#872

Post by michaelcampbell » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

stretchcat wrote: post #78

It was planned for months, openly on Facebook in plain view of everybody. Remember that when politicians call for more intrusive surveillance in response.

Who actually believes the point of surveillance is for protection OF the people?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#873

Post by AzzieElbab » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:52 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #867

AzzieElbab wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even that does not say any planning was done on parler.

This does [1]. According to the description, Parler was the "preferred" platform for planning of right-wing election-related violence. According to the video, now that Parler is gone, Telegram, a tool that over 500 million people use everyday for entirely legitimate purposes, is now nothing more than an outlet for Qanon. If this isn't a prima facie example of the completely balanced, factual, and accurate reporting b…

I read Aws letter not buzzfeed take on it. I advise you do the same

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#874

Post by meowster » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #865

meowster wrote: post #848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What am I doing wrong?

You’re being lazy and/or arguing in bad faith. There’s a few links to a few sources a couple of comments above. It was a BLM/Antifa attack/riot in May 2020.

> It was a BLM/Antifa attack/riot in May 2020.

I'm sorry I missed that, thank you.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#875

Post by tw04 » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #852

tw04 wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? Surely the Capitol Hill has an insurance policy? Or does that moronic point only apply to the common folk? Blessing? The blessing was for peaceful protests, the rioters were universally condemned. >Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 and now serves as vice chair o…

> the rioters were universally condemned No, they were not. There was hand-wringing about “the language of the unheard”, bail funds being raised for arrested rioters, the author of a book titled “In Defense of Looting” being interviewed uncritically on NPR, Chris Cuomo on CNN rhetorically asking why protesters need to be peaceful, and many other such examples.

>There was hand-wringing about “the language of the unheard”

By who, this is supposedly coming from mainstream media, so cite your source.

>bail funds being raised for arrested rioters

By which major corporation or media group? Again, citation please.

>the author of a book titled “In Defense of Looting” being interviewed uncritically on NPR

That's what NPR does, they attempt to give a platform without injecting their own opinions into the interview. Regardless, I'd again say: citation, I even took the liberty this time for you:

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178...

>Chris Cuomo on CNN rhetorically asking why protesters need to be peaceful

It's great to take a part of a clip out of context. If you listen to the FULL clip - he's referring to protestors yelling and being angry and not following curfew (which he says they'll justifiably arrested for). In the very same clip he literally says

"Looting, arson, violence, now that’s something else. Don’t confuse that with protest or the people doing it with protesters"

So yes, taken out of context you can pretend that Cuomo was supporting violence.

Citation? Did I say that yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1z0ekwqQX4&feature=emb_titl...

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#876

Post by neartheplain » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

bsanr2 wrote: post #631

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They took far right terrorism seriously in the 1870s. They more or less stamped out the (original) KKK while simultaneously giving the south the requisite autonomy to enact Jim Crow. Obviously Jim Crow doesn't square with our modern view but at the time the lack of some systemic way to keep the black people down was a serious grievance that a lot of people had. The government cracked down on the extremists who were s…

Part of the problem is that institutions are always highly resistant to the notion of right-wing, white violence being a serious threat, rooted specifically in its right-wing whiteness. See the Columbine shootings and the frantic finger pointing at video games, Satanism, and bullying, all to avoid facing the fact that what happened could be most easily slotted into the legacy of white dude rage in America. The dynami…

* See the Columbine shootings and the frantic finger pointing at video games, Satanism, and bullying, all to avoid facing the fact that what happened could be most easily slotted into the legacy of white dude rage in America.*

There was no racial element to the Columbine shooting, at all. Racializing it as “white dude rage” is inflammatory and disgusting.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#877

Post by downandout » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

AzzieElbab wrote: post #873

downandout wrote: post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does [1]. According to the description, Parler was the "preferred" platform for planning of right-wing election-related violence. According to the video, now that Parler is gone, Telegram, a tool that over 500 million people use everyday for entirely legitimate purposes, is now nothing more than an outlet for Qanon. If this isn't a prima facie example of the completely balanced, factual, and accurate reporting b…

I read Aws letter not buzzfeed take on it. I advise you do the same

I did, and I see no distinction between what Parler was accused of and what the article we are discussing uncovered about Facebook. Actual planning - not just vague calls for violence - occurred, in plain view, on Facebook, and nothing was done about it. Therefore, if we apply the same standard, Facebook should not be operating this morning. Here’s a direct quote from the Amazon letter you referred to:

”...we cannot provide services to a customer that is unable to effectively identify and remove content that encourages or incites violence against others.”

The article we are discussing clearly found that Facebook meets precisely the same criteria. Therefore, services should not be provided to them, correct? Whoever provides their bandwidth undoubtedly has the very similar TOS...they all have similar provisions about network abuse.

Also, here’s a quote from the article you’re referring to:

”People on Parler used the social network to stoke fear, spread hate, and allegedly coordinate the insurrection at the Capitol building on Wednesday.”

I don’t know why you and others on here continue to argue that a double standard, combined with either inaccurate reporting or outright lies, is not at play here - despite overwhelming and obvious evidence to the contrary. But it’s disingenuous and makes me sad not just for HN, but for the country at large.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#878

Post by koolba » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #871

koolba wrote: post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Predicting that somebody stupid would do something stupid after the last election does not make one Nostradamus. He also claims that Trump is refusing to leave and is leveraging the military to facilitate that. That's bunk.

It's bunk because the military didn't play ball, not because it wasn't tried. What's mostly bunk here is that you think that this is behind you and I am not willing to accept that until we have seen one, and preferably two transfers of power without mishap, preferably in both directions.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You're claiming the sitting President tried to mobilize the military to prevent a transfer of power. Do you have any evidence of that?

Claiming there was fraud in the past election, that the election was stolen, or that the results should not have been certified is not mobilizing the military. It's not even illegal, it's part of the constitutional process.

Hell, some Democrats did exactly that to Trump in 2017. Even the Democrat Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi herself disputed the results in 2005 yet she now claims that anyone else repeating her own words is an insurrectionist.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#879

Post by _etyf » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #806

neartheplain wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, the feds had besieged Ruby Ridge in the first place due to Randy Weaver's far-right connections. They wanted to flip him as an informant on the Aryan Nations [0], a white nationalist group with ties to deadly terror cells like The Order [1]. To this end, they threatened him with the weapons charge that led to the the siege at Ruby Ridge, and ultimately to the shooting deaths of Samuel and Vicky Weaver. So fa…

Another way of looking at it is that the federal government entrapped Randy Weaver on weapons charges when he didn’t want to do their leg work, and when he didn’t show up to court, they killed his entire family. In other words, taking terrorism “seriously” sometimes is done in ways that involve killing innocent people and inciting more blowback in the long run.

Yep, Ruby Ridge and Waco were fiascos which led directly to the bombing of the Murrah Building. McVeigh explicitly called out those events as his motivation for the bombing.

The lessons learned were apparent in the government’s approach to the 2016 wildlife refuge standoff. Rather than dash in guns-blazing, the government simply established a perimeter and waited for the occupiers to run out of Clif Bars. Took the ringleaders into custody with a minimum of force when they attempted to leave. Of the 30-40 occupiers, only one was shot as he reached for his gun. No law enforcement officers were harmed. World of difference compared to Waco, where 4 ATF officers and 82 Branch Davidians were killed.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#880

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #846

ceejayoz wrote: post #831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One guy? This guy? > Activists in Utah have spent months condemning Sullivan, who has at turns identified himself as a racial justice protester and leftist documentarian, and they have warned others to be leery of his motives and any events he sponsored. > He held rallies featuring Black organizers. But attendees said one demonstration also featured members of the Proud Boys, an all-male extremist group with ties to…

We can keep arguing past each other or you can listen to his own speech delivered personally by him to know where his alignment truly lies: https://www.air.tv/watch?v=wZAuX4HmTK6WCuGoqPLB4w "We fought against white militia. [expletive]. We are going to rip Trump out of office. We are going to rip that [expletive]. " The left may have abandoned this guy now after his arrest and are busy deflecting all association, but…

> The left may have abandoned this guy now after his arrest and are busy deflecting all association, but he was most definitely an "anti-trump" activist.

Nah, long before that. From November, for example: https://twitter.com/RebellionBaby/status/1331902008765206528

> It takes just a couple of people to incite a riot honestly and this guy is an expert who was egging people on while standing safe.

Who mentioned Trump?