14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School • Hacker News Board

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#871

Post by eropple » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 9:21 PM UTC

bargl wrote: post #760

eropple wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except there were no such signs, therefore let's not be jerks to a kid .

Obviously someone thought there was a sign, even the teacher told him not to show it to anyone else outside that class. I think saying that a homemade clock isn't a sign is greatly underestimating how the news is capable of skewing things to screw people over.

I looked at the pictures. Any adult with even the slightest understanding of how a bomb must physically work--like, "have something that can actually explode"--should be so utterly certain of its purpose that your concern trolling should horrify them.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#872

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 9:22 PM UTC

pfooti wrote: post #859

dragonwriter wrote: post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Charters are just vouchers in disguise That depends; there are lots of different kinds of charters. Charters are public schools that have some exceptions -- enshrined in a particular charter, hence the name -- to the generally-applicable rules for public schools in the jurisdiction. These can be exception in terms of administrative process, specialty curriculum, alternate non-geographic admission criteria, etc. The…

True, I was being a little reductionist there. But I think that the charter school movement took off shortly after and directly because the voucher movement sunk. There's a lot of isomorphic economic policy between the two, although if I had to pick I'd say charters are better than vouchers.

> But I think that the charter school movement took off shortly after and directly because the voucher movement sunk.

I remember both taking off in parallel with very different support basis; the movement for privately operated charter schools has taken off when and where vouchers-for-private-schools haven't succeeded, but the publicly-operated charters that function as alternative-model public schools still exist and are still something that reformers that aren't supporters of the education privatization movement push (and sometimes nearby areas -- possibly even the same districts -- will have both kinds of charters.)

> There's a lot of isomorphic economic policy between the two, although if I had to pick I'd say charters are better than vouchers.

Between vouchers and privately-operated charters, I don't think you can make a useful of which is better; it mostly comes down to conditions, management, and accountability measures; charters probably make it administratively simpler to avoid the worst problems, but also tend to be greater single-point-of-failure systems.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#873

Post by vellum » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

lliamander wrote: post #812

logfromblammo wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this has great rhetorical impact, it is still an appeal to authority. To me, the Obamas are just like any other rich(er) family. The PotUS has no special expertise in this domain. They can afford to send their kids to private school, they believe that school to be superior to the public schools their kids would otherwise attend, so they pay the private tuition. As a parent, I agree with this. I, however, do not…

it is true that the president may have no special expertise in assessing whether private schools are better than government schools, but it strikes me that any support he expresses for public schools is going to ring hollow if he isn't personally invested in the success of government schools. I could be mistaken, but as far as I am aware no politician (from either side of the aisle) sends their kids to a government s…

> no politician (from either side of the aisle) sends their kids to a government school. At least, no politician at the national level (president, congress, etc.).

About half of Congress sends their kids to public school.

http://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/how-many-politicians-...

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#874

Post by makecheck » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 9:29 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #804

makecheck wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ban means little because the punishment is nothing. If I want to bring something bad on board, there are two outcomes: I succeed, or I don't, and maybe I have to endure a brief scolding. The difference now is that if I fail, I know my mixture will be stuck in the middle of a huge crowd of people for who knows how long, probably giving me time to go far away. The decision to throw all liquids into a bin has create…

What danger is created that wouldn't exist otherwise? If people are bringing explosives through and they're being confiscated and thrown in a bin, then without the confiscations those explosives would be making it onto airplanes instead. Having them explode in a bin would be much preferable to having them explode on an airplane. Again, I don't agree with the liquid ban, but it's a problem with the goal, not a problem…

The danger is that, thanks to the act of throwing everything into a bin, there is now a practically-guaranteed way to leave a dangerous substance in the middle of a very large crowd and walk far away with no questions asked.

If the person's goal was to bring it on a plane, they're suicidal so they probably don't care if it accidentally blows them up in the security line instead.

If instead they expect to set it down and walk away, they can do that anywhere (even if they clear the checkpoint without having their bottle taken). The difference is that the added "security" has given them a much more effective target than they could have anywhere else.

Before the ban, it was always possible for someone to do either one: get on a plane, or set down an object and walk away. It wasn't happening, which means the old security precautions were just fine. And if it had happened, there probably would have been security camera footage of one suspicious individual setting down an object instead of dozens of suspects throwing objects into a bin.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#875

Post by nmrm2 » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 9:29 PM UTC

phaus wrote: post #728

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you have them do? If they're over budget, they're over budget and non-emergencies will have to wait.

The obvious solution would be to buy fewer smart boards this year, along with the stands, and then buy the rest of the smart boards and stands the next year.

Sure, obvious. Until you're negotiating price points and you can save X% aggregate by purchasing Y boards at a time, and then figure you're only losing <<< X%*total_cost in depreciation... then it's just as obvious, but you're making a different decision.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#876

Post by maratd » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

intopieces wrote: post #789

maratd wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need a change in priorities and not freak out about taxes for education. People don't freak out over paying taxes for education. Even if they don't have kids in the system. They freak out over throwing money at a broken system and the solution isn't to throw more money at it. Attach a specific dollar amount to a student. Allow that student to go to whichever school they want. End of story. Stop forcing children…

>Allow that student to go to whichever school they want. End of story. I was given this option in the third grade. I got a letter from the State Board of Education saying that I had performed exceedingly well on their standardized test and that I was invited to change schools and go to a special program in another town for smart kids. My parents told me I should do it. I regret it to this day. I was not equipped to u…

We all make decisions we regret. That doesn't mean all decisions lead to regret. Nor does it mean that we should take away the ability to make decisions.

Fundamentally, we already have school choice. If you have enough money, you can choose your school district by purchasing a house wherever it is that you want to send your children.

That's absolutely revolting.

We are giving choice to those who can afford it and taking it away from those can't. Is that what a public school system should do?

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#877

Post by vellum » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #558

maratd wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need a change in priorities and not freak out about taxes for education. People don't freak out over paying taxes for education. Even if they don't have kids in the system. They freak out over throwing money at a broken system and the solution isn't to throw more money at it. Attach a specific dollar amount to a student. Allow that student to go to whichever school they want. End of story. Stop forcing children…

No one I know has ever freaked out about paying taxes for education. They are, however, skeptical that the local school system which receives those taxes is wisely using those funds to provide education. They have good reason. Much of the money poured into public schooling in the U.S. goes to administration and overhead rather than the direct costs of teaching and student evaluation. Many parents in this country are…

>Every parent knows that raising local taxes to throw more money at their local schools will not solve anything. Richer neighborhoods will have to subsidize the schools in poorer neighborhoods in order to provide equal access to educational resources to all children.

It depends on where you live. In Silicon Valley, they have local measures to raise parcel taxes to fund the schools. All money stays in the district and none of it goes to administration.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#878

Post by rsingel » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 9:36 PM UTC

kochb wrote: post #621

rsingel wrote: post #536

Why is this a link to an aggregation piece by TechCrunch, rather than the original reported story by Dallas Morning News? http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dall...

The Dallas News version was submitted at least 4 times, TechCrunch was the one that stuck: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224216 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10224747

Thanks for checking that. I wish the mods would replace the link, since rewarding original reporting makes more of it, and rewarding aggregation makes more of that.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#879

Post by fao_ » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 9:39 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #835

DanBC wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on: the route from school misdemeanor to criminal justice is well known and much talked about. The combination of zero tolerance with police stationed in schools means many children end up with criminal records for very minor events. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/09/texas-police-sc... > In 2010, the police gave close to 300,000 "Class C misdemeanour" tickets to children as young as six in Texas for o…

How much of that is actual bad behavior. The school to prison pipeline is a worthy discussion. But this sort insane, zero tolerance of total normal behavior is much more limited. I agree we shouldn't be using the criminal system of kids who bring pot to school or who get into fights. But it's a different issue than a kid getting arrested for being a hacker.

  it's a different issue than a kid getting arrested for being a hacker.

How so? Actually in some states the kids who bring pot to school are more worthy for being in the criminal system than the kid being arrested for being a hacker, seeing as the former qualifies as actual criminal activity (again, in some states).

That is to say, I agree with not using the criminal system for those relatively minor excursions, but at the same time I do not see how it is a different problem.

Re: 14-Year-Old Boy Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

#880

Post by phonon » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

biftek wrote: post #856

phonon wrote: post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can easily look up NYC teacher salaries. They start at $50k and go up to $105k. http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/2712AB02-A1EF-4CE2-B879-... When you take into account the shorter work day/work year http://www.uft.org/new-teachers/your-work-day-and-year really good benefits, including a $50-$60k a year pension ( http://www.empirecenter.org/publications/pension-calculator/ ) and essentially tenure...well,…

lol if you think teachers have a "shorter work day/work year" My girlfriend is a High School teacher in NY, and easily works more than I do. You have to factor in planning and grading which is all done after "work".

Well, average actual hours worked in the US is around 1800 (that's net after sick days, vacation, personal days, etc.) https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS Given (in NYC) a school day of 6.33 hours (including lunch) and a school year of 18x days, then subtract personal days and the like...well.

Also, most teachers don't need to do as much planning after a few years. Is if fair that longer serving teachers get paid twice as much as new ones, when new ones put in more hours usually? Well...