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Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#861

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

zahlman wrote: post #832
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have seen many claims of this sort, but every single time there's been video available of the incident, it's become clear to me that nothing of the sort is going on. Have you considered the potential bias that people are dragged out of their cars before they can start recording video? Perhaps the dragging out of the car happens while nobody is recording them, then people see and start recording for posterity. Tha…

> Have you considered the potential bias that people are dragged out of their cars before they can start recording video? All such video has been third-person perspective, so no. > Perhaps the dragging out of the car happens while nobody is recording them, then people see and start recording for posterity. In the cases where video shows events prior to the arrest, it shows justification for the arrest. Activists have…

> All such video has been third-person perspective, so no.

Do you think it is not worth considering?

> This is effectively intimidation.

I'd suggest reading it again more carefully; it is a call to be more thoughtful (I literally use that word). Again, you're not going to get anywhere with complaints about the responses to your comments.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#862

Post by zahlman »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #861
zahlman wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you considered the potential bias that people are dragged out of their cars before they can start recording video? All such video has been third-person perspective, so no. > Perhaps the dragging out of the car happens while nobody is recording them, then people see and start recording for posterity. In the cases where video shows events prior to the arrest, it shows justification for the arrest. Activists have…

> All such video has been third-person perspective, so no. Do you think it is not worth considering? > This is effectively intimidation. I'd suggest reading it again more carefully; it is a call to be more thoughtful (I literally use that word). Again, you're not going to get anywhere with complaints about the responses to your comments.

> Do you think it is not worth considering?

Because it is third-person video, "dragged out of their cars before they can start recording video?" is moot. There is nothing preventing the third person from starting the recording earlier, and indeed they have done so in many cases.

> I'd suggest reading it again more carefully; it is a call to be more thoughtful (I literally use that word).

I read it just fine. You speak of more "thoughtful" posting, but I can find no charitable way to interpret this, because I am not violating HN guidelines but I am getting flagged anyway. I notice that you ignored the point about other people flagrantly violating guidelines without consequence because they have the approved opinions. I also notice that you did not try to defend the flagging of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46750452 . Instead, you argue that it is my responsibility to not let other people perceive my strong disagreement as inherently trolling, or else not post at all.

The net effect of this is to suppress strongly dissenting opinions, under threat of further community action ("flags and downvotes... will keep coming (on this topic) until..."). Hence, intimidation.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#863

Post by Rapzid »

JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #752
Rapzid wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the military. It's worth pointing out our military is very different than those militaries.

Really? Why they accepted to execute the kidnapping of Maduro then? Or the droning made famous by Snowden, or Abu Graib or all the grim stuff that happened in the Middle East ever since 2001? The Military thinks it's better than everyone and as a personality type they want to be involved in unprecedented stuff to 'leave their mark on the world' A bad actor can seize such sentiment in a whim

Yes, really, and in a very important way specifically but in numerous ways.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#864

Post by dang »

testing22321 wrote: post #819
dang wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was obviously not a real question.

I’m a bit taken back you would say that. In much of what I’ve read about the fall of rule of law and dictators rising to power in other countries, people very often talk about one of two things - how they wish they had done more to stop it, or how they’re proud of what they did and they feel they made a difference - even if small. Even the parents of Alex Pretti who was killed yesterday said in a statement they’re ve…

I appreciate that there's a gap between what people intend to say and what they actually say, but I'm not sure I've ever seen the gap as large as what you posted above vs. what you posted here.

In case it helps at all, "When your door is kicked down, your partner is dragged away and citizens are executed on your street, will you feel proud about how you have helped suppress these discussions?" struck me as grammatically, rhetorically, and emotionally more aggressive than even "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" as an incriminating cross-examination.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#865

Post by Capricorn2481 »

ninkendo wrote: post #759
Capricorn2481 wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't hate you. I'm frustrated with your mental gymnastics. Because your entire thread here boils down to this > it just fits a pattern of “administration does something abhorrent, people get mad, social media amplifies the anger, it turns into real world deaths I need you to pay attention to how you're writing. You are laying the deaths of these people squarely on the left for how they react to abhorrence. And if…

Please, please, please tone it down. Really. This is the amplification I’m talking about. You say “I don’t hate you” and then spew a bunch of hate at me. I’m having a lot of trouble not getting extremely angry right now at your reply because you’re taking the least charitable possible interpretation of every fucking thing I’m saying . This is so fucking maddening. I’m going to reply but please understand this is fuck…

> Please, please, please tone it down. Really. This is the amplification I’m talking about. You say “I don’t hate you” and then spew a bunch of hate at me

Listen, I'm sorry if I caused you emotional distress, and I can tell you're a kind person, but I wish you led with this comment, because it's a very revealing response. If my comment was "hateful" to you, I don't think you should lecture people on their emotional responses to these situations.

I am going to reiterate that the victims of ICE are begging people to share their stories.

> I am going to reply to all of this in a chunk. And I want to picture in your mind that I’m someone in your life that you respect (friend, neighbor, loved one, doesn’t matter).

I'm talking to you exactly how I talk to anyone in my life that would say what you're saying. Just because I correctly pointed out the impact of your rhetoric, that doesn't mean I'm "spewing hate at you." I'm disappointed in you. I hear a lot worse from people I'm related to.

> This is a very important distinction to make. It’s the difference between giving your daughter advice for “don’t dress like that when you go out, there are a lot of dangerous people out there” and saying “it was her fault she was raped”. The former is practical advice you might give to someone you care about, and the latter is the abhorrent victim blaming you’re casually accusing me of doing.

No man. Open your eyes. You are doing the latter. Renee is dead, and you have 1 sentence condoning ICE, and multiple paragraphs explaining what SHE should have done differently. That is exactly like saying "If she dressed differently, this may not have happened." You have more energy for what she did than the categorically disproportionate escalation of violence.

I wouldn't tell my daughter what to wear, and limit her freedoms, because I know that wouldn't stop her from being harmed. I would tell her to be with people she trusts and lean on her friends for safety.

> One of those things that could have happened differently is for people to choose a different avenue than directly interacting with the armed men

That's great that you're able to do that. Some people do not have that choice. I hope you have a good day.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#866

Post by zahlman »

Bootvis wrote: post #848
zahlman wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't hear or see them, no. The video footage available isn't high enough quality. There's too much chaos, people are using phones that they can't hold steady, etc.

The phone not being steady matters for sound recording? How?

There was a lot of background noise, you know, with all the shouting and whistles and such.

I did later find video where the gunshots are much more clear.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#867

Post by zahlman »

queenkjuul wrote: post #637
zahlman wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ICE has regularly attacked protesters and bystanders who are simply recording, walking away and so on. > Even people just driving through their neighborhood have been dragged out of their vehicles and apprehended. Citizen or otherwise doesn’t seem to matter. I have seen many claims of this sort, but every single time there's been video available of the incident, it's become clear to me that nothing of the sort is g…

ICE shot a woman 5 times while she was alone in her car. Body cam confirmed she did not resist, federal investigation failed to produce charges. But yeah, it's just not happening, you couldn't possibly just be unaware Edit: you literally said "i will not watch the videos" - you are admittedly willfully ignorant on the subject, your posts are therefore irrelevant

[flagged]

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#868

Post by defrost »

zahlman wrote: post #867
queenkjuul wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE shot a woman 5 times while she was alone in her car. Body cam confirmed she did not resist, federal investigation failed to produce charges. But yeah, it's just not happening, you couldn't possibly just be unaware Edit: you literally said "i will not watch the videos" - you are admittedly willfully ignorant on the subject, your posts are therefore irrelevant

[flagged]

I assume the Renée Good shooting, which was three times.

Interesting the conflicting orders she received were not "lawful".

Her vehicle was across a single lane, prior to the shooting incident vehicles were freely passing, so traffic was not blocked by a common occurrence of a vehicle across a single lane of an icy road.

She was not stopping ICE or DHS from apprehending an immigrant, and the Federal Immigration agents had no authority to deal with traffic matters in MN.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#869

Post by latexr »

dragontamer wrote: post #63

Sounds like ICE's official word right now is that the guy had a gun. But the video clearly indicates that they all tackled him to the ground and were wrestling him maybe 4 vs 1, before they all shot him together. I'm not quite sure how a gun can have come out of this. Maybe the guy while struggling on the ground happened to reach in the direction of someone's gun while getting curbstomped, I dunno. What I'm most worr…

It’s like that old Bill Hicks routine, except the US is now doing it to itself instead of (only) other countries.

“You all saw him, he had a gun”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdf8UvkjUbc

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#870

Post by latexr »

starkparker wrote: post #115
dragontamer wrote: post #63

Sounds like ICE's official word right now is that the guy had a gun. But the video clearly indicates that they all tackled him to the ground and were wrestling him maybe 4 vs 1, before they all shot him together. I'm not quite sure how a gun can have come out of this. Maybe the guy while struggling on the ground happened to reach in the direction of someone's gun while getting curbstomped, I dunno. What I'm most worr…

> At a news conference, Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O’Hara said the man who was shot was a 37-year-old white man with no serious criminal history and a record that showed some parking tickets. Law enforcement sources said Saturday their records show Pretti had no serious criminal history. > O'Hara said the man was a “lawful gun owner” with a permit. Records show that Pretti attended the University of Minnesota. St…

> peace officer

What’s it called when you name something the complete opposite of what it is?

Not an oxymoron, because that’s about the concepts in the words.

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