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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#861

Post by stev-0 »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #551
Teandw wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No citation needed. It doesn't take much brain power to know that certain things are or aren't likely. It would be like asking me to prove that not many people have done the calculation of 15435 divided by 12.5 in their life. I can just tell you from basic logical thinking, that it's not likely that many people have.

Really? Using $10,000 in cash is like doing a very specific math problem? A lot more people have used large quantities of cash for non-criminal activity. The few times I have used huge quantities of cash, it has been for stupid reasons: someone doesn't take credit cards or bank transfers, and won't trust a check until it clears, so it's easier to just use a pile of cash. By the way, I keep plenty of cash around so I…

Explain a single scenario of how one acquires large amounts of cash that:

1. Isn’t easy to provide provisions for.(which is how cash payments can be made legal). 2. Doesn’t require criminal activity in Europe.

I think a lot of people are thinking about this with the US tax system in the back of their minds.

The tax system in many European countries is very different. We pay WAY more income tax. That means that the incentives for tax avoidance are much greater. As a result tax avoidance is a European pastime.

I think that a more transparent financial system is a great thing to strive for. Less financial privacy is is likely to lead to. 1. less money going toward lobbying. 2. Less tax avoidance 3. Less hidden wealth. 4. Less/more expensive money laundering.

It might someday even lead to successful taxation of wealth instead of income.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#862

Post by ahtihn »

B8MGHCBekDuRi wrote: post #798
ahtihn wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying a used car.

in cash? for more than 10k? if someone has 10k cash they will not buy a used car, they will buy a new car, pay it in the next 5 years 200 euros a month and then sell it to a used car reseller. No sane minded person would sell their more than 10k worth car in cash to an unknown party who shows up with a bag full of 50 euros bills. BTW this position comes from people who regularly see cash as a form of freedom from opp…

There's no better way than cash for large transactions between private persons. All the apps have limits of a few thousand and bank transfers take a business day (in Switzerland). No one wants to transfer 5 figures to a random person and wait a day before taking possession of the car. Sellers don't want to give the car before the money is in their account.

So cash it is.

Used cars go for way more than 10k. I bought my current car for 35k used. If you go to used car dealer, the average price is nowhere near 10k.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#863

Post by nix23 »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #843
nix23 wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You need to launder it to make it white. Yes i buy drugs and sell them...i don't think the mafia has anything against that money, they will then just give it to the Vatican bank to wash it. If you really don't understand that this i just a excuse....

Vatican City is not in the EU. I seriously don't understand what point you're attempting to make here. This legislation will make it harder for people to simply launder money. Yes, you are right that it won't stop people from complicatedly laundering money but that's not the point of the legislation.

>Vatican City is not in the EU.

Too bad eh? But schengen..and thinking about it switzerland too, hey criminals! You are once again welcomed to give us (switzerland) the money, because you cant use it somewhere else....what a excellent idea.

>I seriously don't understand what point you're attempting to make here.

I don't understand why try to defend a law that is as effective as german power production.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#864

Post by nottorp »

lilsoso wrote: post #653
hazzahzah wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa/MC is not so widely accepted in smaller shops/stores. However, if you have a maestro debit card you basically have no need to carry cash. I live in Holland and never carry cash, even when going to food markets or when going out for far cycling trips to village areas. Only reason I carry cash (and I specifically have to go to the ATM for this) is when I go to my barber, of which it is obvious, they only accept ca…

Foreigners in the Netherlands must use cash at Albert Heijn, the major grocery store, as they do not accept credit and essentially only accept Dutch debit cards (ie, Maestro). Ethnic restaurants in Amsterdam, say around De Pijp, often force payment in cash. Are you sure you really want to pay for items at a 'coffee shop' in Amsterdam by card?

> Are you sure you really want to pay for items at a 'coffee shop' in Amsterdam by card?

They're legal stores, not some heavily armed pot dealer in an alley. Why not?

Tbh I didn't even think of trying the legal weed when I was in NL.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#865

Post by djbebs »

Teandw wrote: post #257
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash?

I dont need to make that argument. You need to make the argument that I shouldn't be able to.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#866

Post by TheAlchemist »

mrfumier wrote: post #700
TheAlchemist wrote: post #616

This sounds like a completely bullshit argument. There are close to 20 billions $ of Russian oligarchs frozen assets now - I bet almost none of it was acquired in cash. While of course there are some that do use cash, the bigger offenders are not - so it may be a good idea to start with the real problems…

> I bet almost none of it was acquired in cash. Based on?

It's a bet !

But more seriously, based on the fact that that represents really a lot of banknotes - and those assets are bought from real companies - which would then need to deposit say 100M in cash in their bank - doesn't seem hard to track I guess.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#867

Post by thdespou »

SergeAx wrote: post #778
thdespou wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

500 euro bills were scrapped some time ago.

Well, I am holding one in my hands right now, I got it from European bank several days ago.

It may be still a legal tender but it has stopped being issued https://www.centralbank.ie/consumer-hub/notes-and-coins/euro...

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#868

Post by N19PEDL2 »

olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

> ... the EU is penalizing everyone ...

I'd rather say: the EU is penalizing a very few people who usually pay €10k cash.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#869

Post by Quarrelsome »

nix23 wrote: post #863
Quarrelsome wrote: post #843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vatican City is not in the EU. I seriously don't understand what point you're attempting to make here. This legislation will make it harder for people to simply launder money. Yes, you are right that it won't stop people from complicatedly laundering money but that's not the point of the legislation.

>Vatican City is not in the EU. Too bad eh? But schengen..and thinking about it switzerland too, hey criminals! You are once again welcomed to give us (switzerland) the money, because you cant use it somewhere else....what a excellent idea. >I seriously don't understand what point you're attempting to make here. I don't understand why try to defend a law that is as effective as german power production.

> Too bad eh?

So you accept that your tangent is not relevant?

I feel like you're not actually interested in this specific subject but rather just have an anti-EU axe to grind. That's a tiresome way to be and I would suggest you try to hold in your urges and stay on subject. There's plenty of time and space to have these discussions but railroading any discussion about the EU into angry Farage-esqe diatribe is the domain of demagogues.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#870

Post by peoplefromibiza »

mdp2021 wrote: post #822
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This implies, no record of personal purchases around. What's stopping peoole to do it? I regularly pay my drinks cash. I never paid a beer more than 10k though... > The current "fight against cash" goes in direction of that risk. I'm glad that when I pay someone for something they can't say I didn't do it and ask for the money again. That includes the State. I paid my taxes, here's the proof. I already paid my ener…

> What's stopping peoole to do it? Bad question. Good question instead: "What seems to be the trend which may be at some point stop people from doing it". > what you are talking about You do not get the point. Of course one is glad to have the ability to prove transactions that one wants to be recorded; the issue is with the threats to the ability of carrying on transactions that one does not want to be recorded.

> What seems to be the trend which may be at some point stop people from doing it

very easy answer: progress.

same reason why people don't use shells as coins anymore.

> the issue is with the threats to the ability of carrying on transactions that one does not want to be recorded.

As the philosopher Jägger once said

You can't always get what you want

It's a fundamental principle of any community that ever existed, apparently in some parts of the richest World people are incapable of understanding that me is much less important than everyone.

Imagine a World where I say "I don't want to have an ID with my picture on it" but I also want to travel around the World freely, because I don't like explaining myself to random strangers in uniforms.

There are easy solutions to what you are looking for, Theodore Kaczynski is a notorious and virtuose example on how to pull it off, but none of them involve large amounts of cash spent in a single transaction, which is fishy per se because it requires two or more parties agreeing to do something that has virtually no advantage, except the most common: hiding something. I would like to understand what that something is, because the most obvious conclusion is "something shady". We all agree on that, let's be real.

I understand if protesters in HK buy tickets for the subway in cash to not get tracked by the Chinese government. Chinese are famously a little bit repressive.

I don't understand why someone in the US, living in the best and freest country in the World, the greatest democracy ever, the place where dreams come true, a Country where, unlike China, they give protesters a price in the form of a few days in jail, would like to spend large amounts of cash instead of using more modern systems to hide from their government and the IRS, two of the things that define "the most civilized place on the Planet", according to its citizens.

Something's doesn't add up here.

If it wasn't about the US, that we all know is heaven on Earth, one might be inclined to think that it's the reaction of a cynical, narcissistic, money driven, trigger-easy population to a government that has only one way to make people behave like they live in a single united Country and belong in a modern society, not tribes: violence and tyranny.

But that's obviously false for the US.

You know, as European, the many flaws of Europe are an advantage.

Even if the government wanted to track me and all my expenses, they are so incompetent that I'll probably be dead before they realize that I bough a new electric bike with my CC. I live dangerously, I know.

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