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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#551

Post by pclmulqdq »

Teandw wrote: post #456
ur-whale wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This likely affects a number of people that is so small, that it's irrelevant. Citation required.

No citation needed. It doesn't take much brain power to know that certain things are or aren't likely. It would be like asking me to prove that not many people have done the calculation of 15435 divided by 12.5 in their life. I can just tell you from basic logical thinking, that it's not likely that many people have.

Really? Using $10,000 in cash is like doing a very specific math problem?

A lot more people have used large quantities of cash for non-criminal activity. The few times I have used huge quantities of cash, it has been for stupid reasons: someone doesn't take credit cards or bank transfers, and won't trust a check until it clears, so it's easier to just use a pile of cash. By the way, I keep plenty of cash around so I can still pay for stuff even if the internet goes out regionally.

Also note that this does not really stop criminals or rich people from moving money around: there are plenty of ways around these laws.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#552

Post by wbl »

twic wrote: post #527
ur-whale wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash? Anyone involved in the construction business. But yeah, if you're a wage slave in the tertiary sector, you're very unlikely to realize how and why cash is necessary or even a matter of survival for a large class of workers out there.

Anyone involved in the construction business has made a single transaction of over ten thousand euros in cash? What for?

Tax evasion

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#553

Post by Teandw »

tastysandwich wrote: post #506

A similar thing was attempted in Australia [1]. I just ask people to consider that even though we all have bank accounts and we take that for granted, there _are_ actually people who don't, and they're not operating a criminal enterprise. My grandparents came as refugees. My grandfather has never had a bank account. He bought a car with $50 bills once. It was so funny, they were all stuck together and the clerk had t…

Unfortunately we wouldn't move forward as a society if we didn't do things that affected people that didn't want to progress with modern ways of living.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#554

Post by wbl »

Teandw wrote: post #523
olivermarks wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the US and UK/Europe. The vast majority of older people at a swap meet or similar are not going to trust smartphone app transactions. Cash is king.

They don't trust a smartphone app provided by their banking provider but they trust a random bloke they've never met with 10k in their back pocket. Right. Makes sense.

You don't need to trust the person when they have cash

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#555

Post by pclmulqdq »

ceejayoz wrote: post #530
ETH_start wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

€10K is not that much.

It's a lot to put in a sack and bring to a store to pay for something.

$10,000 in US $20 bills weighs about 1 pound. In $100 bills, it fits nicely in your pocket or in a small purse. I assume 100 euro notes are about the same.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#556

Post by ceejayoz »

p1esk wrote: post #532
ceejayoz wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if your government decides to take all your money from you for no good reason? They will succeed? With or without this limit, you're fucked.

Imagine you’re a dissident and you’re running from your government. You’re are more likely to succeed if you have cash.

If I'm a dissident running from the government I probably don't want the attention generated by bringing 10k Euros in cash into a business to buy something.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#557

Post by jfghi »

Teandw wrote: post #553
tastysandwich wrote: post #506

A similar thing was attempted in Australia [1]. I just ask people to consider that even though we all have bank accounts and we take that for granted, there _are_ actually people who don't, and they're not operating a criminal enterprise. My grandparents came as refugees. My grandfather has never had a bank account. He bought a car with $50 bills once. It was so funny, they were all stuck together and the clerk had t…

Unfortunately we wouldn't move forward as a society if we didn't do things that affected people that didn't want to progress with modern ways of living.

Modern ways of living is more akin to using toilets. Cash isn’t an unnecessary artifact of ancient civilization that impedes progress.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#558

Post by pclmulqdq »

1337biz wrote: post #524
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

The hn responses are stunning. It is insane that a pro privacy crowd supports the removal of freedoms, such as cash payments. It is amazing how many hn users appreciate their bank and government to keep track of their purchases and hope more people will become like them - just because they can't imagine buying anything worth 10k. When even HN is in full swing anti cash - and with current inflation rates 10k probably…

The European crowd on HN in general is very much in favor of big government. I assume GDPR is very popular here despite making software development a huge pain, for example. Americans on HN (and ironically a lot of Germans on here) seem to be much more libertarian in their sensibility.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#559

Post by Teandw »

darth_avocado wrote: post #503
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

Ahh yes the good ol “harder to launder dirty money argument. But, > money laundering doesn’t work like that. You don’t have large cash payments, you have a ton of smaller cash payments. > big banks launder money, have better oversight there instead of restricting cash

Money laundering, like drugs, starts in larger amounts and is broken down further down the chain it goes.

Those $5 and $10 bills getting laundered started from a $50K transaction getting laundered.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#560

Post by pclmulqdq »

flumpcakes wrote: post #488

There already exists laws where you have to register with tax authorities to receive payments in cash over 10,000 euros. It would be quite easy for the government to look at this list and decide that there's no reason they can't be done by BACS and then introduce this law. There's a lot of replies that are quite shocked, but in the EU and the UK it is very unusual to use cash for high value payments. For example, you…

In the US, you have to fill out a form that gets sent to the FBI and IRS if you use over $10,000 cash in one transaction. It's still legal. I think this is a much better solution than banning cash transfers over $10,000.
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