Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4 • Hacker News Board

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#861

Post by gbear605 » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 1:05 PM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #853

com2kid wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

As a opposite view: Some team members output has severely dropped. I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. Also work and free time has mixed to a point where people just randomly take hour or two to go skiing or for a walk and routinely just quit at the normal time. Commuting is different in different places. For me it is 15 minute drive to the office from a neighboring smaller city where…

> Yes, they are now open, but there is also like a meter of snow outside

Wouldn’t that snow be just as annoying to deal with for getting to work?

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#862

Post by qzx_pierri » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 1:05 PM UTC

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

Are you a manager? I swear it’s ONLY managers who say these things.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#863

Post by matwood » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

VikingCoder wrote: post #538

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

I would make the claim: "Allowing remote work has been proven to be better." Because it increases the supply of candidates. I also have a bias to believing it increases Diversity and Inclusion, which I think are also good things. I get that I'm leaving as an exercise for the reader "how to implement hybrid teams" and "how to fairly evaluate employees who are remote and not." I've spent roughly a thousand hours of tim…

> I also have a bias to believing it increases Diversity and Inclusion, which I think are also good things.

100%. Email and Slack are great for DEIA. In person meetings end up dominated by whoever is loudest/most aggressive. I know a woman who just left and in-person company for a fully remote position because of issues in person. She would tell me stories about a taller man who would purposely stand over people to intimidate them.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#864

Post by bdcravens » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 1:11 PM UTC

I'm pro-remote, but I worked from home years prior to COVID. I also never have even considered working for a Google or the like, forgoing whatever benefits that incurs. When they were hired, they knew what the expectations were. If after experiencing an alternative they decide that's the lifestyle they want, there are plenty of options.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#865

Post by fn-mote » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 1:13 PM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #855

headmelted wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To extend this, more useable time with family. For many people with younger children (and therefore early evening bedtimes), having or not having a commute is not a difference of an hour or two of your day - it's the difference between spending time with your family during the week versus not at all. I've heard this from many friends (and some family) across different industries - hardly any have wanted to stick thei…

As a counterpoint people with young children seem to spend at least some time each week during work hours taking care of their kids while their partner (whose on maternity leave) is doing something else. Also the constant background noise of kids crying or some kids show playing it pretty annoying.

Cannot tell if the parent is missing /s or not... just in case not.

- Noise cancelling headphones work as well at home as they do at work. I love mine.

- Imagine: I definitely spend time outside of "work hours" doing work, so it might balance out.

Anyway, person-to-person and day-to-day differences in productivity are pretty large in my experience. Of course you could be in a bust-your-butt-for-a-promotion kind of situation, but you could also take the attitude that you're getting paid for what you actually do, and the fact that you are not top 1% productivity is reflected in your current "help-at-home-when-I-am-needed" salary.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#866

Post by rgallagher27 » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 1:14 PM UTC

ihateolives wrote: post #795

teekert wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much agree and I’m looking for another job because my company is forcing me back for 3/5 days because of this. I’m not going back to that.

Onsite/online split is the worse, unless you work with just a laptop and nothing else then you'd have to have duplicate setups at work/home and at least I'm always leaving things eithere here or there and then missing them.

And you basically have all the downsides of being full time in office. Have to live within commuting distance, have to buy the train/bus season tickets (or have a working car and fuel it), have to schedule deliveries/family time/exercise around your in office days etc.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#867

Post by raygelogic » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 1:14 PM UTC

I think remote work makes more sense the more stable the development pathway is. the more cross function work, the more uncertainty, and maybe the higher the required velocity, the more important it seems to be able to have impromptu discussions. I find I spend a few hours a week just catching up on things I'm missing in the office while working remotely. and when I do go in, I'll learn something that causes a total pivot in my understanding of a business need.

that said, I never have had as much deep focus as when I'm working from home, in particular in the evenings. really important discoveries are made there too. so I think having both is optimal. and above all, having a flexible job is something I've come to expect for work-life harmony.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#868

Post by EMM_386 » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 1:16 PM UTC

darkhorse222 wrote: post #541

asd88 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is doing something similar where you can choose hybrid work or fully remote. Personally, I think, with hybrid work, fully remote workers will go back to being second class citizens at those companies if most people choose to go back to the office (even part time).

Indeed. Be warned, remote devs. Ideally only be remote on a fully remote team. You don't want to be the one person excluded from the meeting in the hall.

> You don't want to be the one person excluded from the meeting in the hall.

Unless I'm outperforming my entire team, since everything can be seen and reported on.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#869

Post by ihateolives » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 1:17 PM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #853

com2kid wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

As a opposite view: Some team members output has severely dropped. I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. Also work and free time has mixed to a point where people just randomly take hour or two to go skiing or for a walk and routinely just quit at the normal time. Commuting is different in different places. For me it is 15 minute drive to the office from a neighboring smaller city where…

> Some team members output has severely dropped. I've seen people playing video games during work hours for example. Also work and free time has mixed to a point where people just randomly take hour or two to go skiing or for a walk and routinely just quit at the normal time.

People spending time on other things could be a sign that they either don't want to can't do full 8h anyway. I can't, just can't, my mind does not work that way. I can spend 2-3 days at the lowest gear just barely ticking boxes and then get everything done in one productive day. I'd be happy and I dare say more productive for the dollar when working 6h for 20% reduced pay. I now still work 6h but stretched to 8h and I don't have guilt free extra 2h for my own stuff because I feel like I should be accomplishing something no matter my health, the weather, my emotional state or other factors going on in my life.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#870

Post by fzzzy » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 1:18 PM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #673

librish wrote: post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

> Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to continue working if so desired.

Just so you know, this is not legal. I hate it.