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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

annehelen.substack.com

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#861

Post by ncallaway »

treis wrote: post #685
rbg246 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is saying that these sorts of companies have lots of money. These business have a model that relies on poverty wages changing the minimum wage will disrupt these businesses greatly and I don't see a problem with that. You can't keep a broken thing going because of the businesses that will have to change their model. But sorry I also see your point there needs to be help to business to change thei…

>These business have a model that relies on poverty wages changing the minimum wage will disrupt these businesses greatly and I don't see a problem with that. Doesn't that just end with bankrupt businesses and unemployed workers?

Not really.

Look at empirical studies of past minimum wage increases and you don't often see unemployment increase. The employment rate is often stable through a minimum wage increase.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#862

Post by engineer_22 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #514
zizee wrote: post #382

Honest question: why do discussions about minimum wage in the U.S. never propose having teenagers having a different minimum to adults? In australia we have a $12.50/hr minimum for 15 year olds. It climbs in increments until about $25/hr. This system allows teenagers to get a foot in the door for low-skilled jobs, and allows adults to get paid a livable wage. The result is that a lot of fast food jobs are performed b…

> Honest question: why do discussions about minimum wage in the U.S. never propose having teenagers having a different minimum to adults? Because its effect would be a transfer of jobs from working class adults to middle class kids.

Why don't we ask the guy in Australia instead of declaring the results absque facta.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#863

Post by ab111111111 »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

The whole point of a minimum wage increase is that it will increase all restaurants' wage costs to the same degree, at the same time. Meaning that going "down the street", potential diner's will find that all restaurants' prices have increased equally. So the business threat isn't that American consumers will abandon "Dale's" in particular for some other restaurant. It's that they will choose to eat at home instead of eating at a restaurant, or that they will order less food when they do go to one.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#864

Post by WarChortle18 »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #831
dstaley wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things: 1. According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, about half of people making minimum wage or less are older than 25 years old. 2. A single person working a full-time job (32 hours) at minimum wage makes $12,064. The US federal definition of poverty for this individual would be anything below $12,880. So yes, minimum wage workers are literally, by definition, working for poverty wages.

Where is a full time job 32 hours? We work 40 hours in most of the world, that is 25% more.

Many companies in the US limit their employees to 32 or 36 hours a week so they don't have to pay benefits. It's a horrible system.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#866

Post by dv_dt »

j1elo wrote: post #279
inetknght wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you elaborate on this? $7.25 8 hours = $58. It's hard to imagine expenses adding up anywhere close to $58/day, especially if you factor in that in high cost of living areas the minimum wage is also higher than $7.25.* Wow can you be any more out of touch? Your comment is offensively innaccurate. $58/day = $1740 for 30 days Unhealthy cheap carbs for a single person... $200/month (chicken, beans, rice, milk, chee…

> Vehicle insurance on an old vehicle: $300/mo Wow. In Spain you would pay between €150 to 200 per year of insurance for the typical old cheap car. 400/year for a nice, semi luxury one. I knew some things were expensive in the States, but this particular one surprised me a lot.

One side effect of the US not having universal healthcare (and overpaying massively for healthcare as one result) is that leaks into litigation on other insurance for just about everything from cars to homes to retail business etc...

Our non profit Parent teacher association and the schools themselves have to carry insurance for events in case someone happens to get injured.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#867

Post by ncallaway »

humanrebar wrote: post #370
dstaley wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things: 1. According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, about half of people making minimum wage or less are older than 25 years old. 2. A single person working a full-time job (32 hours) at minimum wage makes $12,064. The US federal definition of poverty for this individual would be anything below $12,880. So yes, minimum wage workers are literally, by definition, working for poverty wages.

I don't find those talking points convincing. For one, even with your statistics, half of folks employed are school-age. Also, poverty is measured by household. Confusing the math isn't a good way to make a quantitative argument. But mostly your argument is a semantic trick around the word "poverty" to rationalize weighted terminology. Again, I have strong feelings that employers should be conscious of the lives and…

> Also, poverty is measured by household. Confusing the math isn't a good way to make a quantitative argument.

The figure they used was for a household of size 1, so I don't think they confused the math and I think they made a perfectly strong quantitative argument.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/2021-poverty-guidelines#threshholds

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#869

Post by inglor_cz »

ab111111111 wrote: post #863
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

The whole point of a minimum wage increase is that it will increase all restaurants' wage costs to the same degree, at the same time. Meaning that going "down the street", potential diner's will find that all restaurants' prices have increased equally. So the business threat isn't that American consumers will abandon "Dale's" in particular for some other restaurant. It's that they will choose to eat at home instead o…

"it will increase all restaurants' wage costs to the same degree"

In an ideal world full of law abiding citizens, yes.

In practice, restaurants that cheat are going to win.

I live in a country that has a lot of regulations in the hospitality sector and yet the "paid under the table, not officially employed here" phenomenon is everywhere.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#870

Post by WaltPurvis »

angmarsbane wrote: post #478
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

If businesses didn’t have to pay for health plans, would that free up enough to pay higher wages?

Almost none of the jobs in question include health benefits, so it's not really a factor.
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