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A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

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Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#861

Post by pbhjpbhj »

pwned1 wrote: post #592
thesuitonym wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>tell me what the terms of the contract will be and I'll decide for myself. Nobody can tell you what the contract will be because the contract won't be drawn up until the union exists and has enough members to bargain. What you DO know is the current contract you have. You DO know that you have virtually no say in what is in that contract, "accept it or leave," is not having a say in that contract. You DO know that a…

Sounds like the cart before the horse. Tell me I'm signing up for something that I have no idea how it will turn out, and then present me with a take it or leave it contract months later. And I'm stuck.

I (from the UK) don't understand: you don't have to join a union. Keep your current contract and don't have a say in Union representation and negotiation, if that's what you want.

It's 'take greater combined power against the corporation you work for' (and in things like representation of your industry before government) or stand on your own as you do now.

I don't understand how it's possible to lose?

You can even wimp out at the first call for solidarity of you want to.

In my current role there are 3 unions that are well represented in the work place, I chose one that seems best to represent my interests and that has members in industries I might move in to.

Benefits for me are currently advice seminars on career progression and work related issues (pensions!), and annual pay negotiations (which are quite weak, pressing for inflationary pay rises).

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#862

Post by astura »

bumby wrote: post #837
Sodman wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a huge stretch to imagine the following scenario play out though: 1. Tech workers unionize, negotiate with employer that any work > 40 hours / week get paid overtime. 2. The company now has two choices: A) Pay their employees more than their competitors for the same work. Or B) Don't authorize any overtime. 3. In scenario A, they're either running at (much) higher cost than their competitors, and thus a disa…

One unfortunate consequence in A is that it may cause the unscrupulous to delay work in order to work overtime at a higher rate. This was sometimes an issue with (non-software) maintenance

Salaried employees usually get paid straight time for overtime rather than time and a half. (That's my personal experience - I've always been paid straight time for overtime) That at least takes away one incentive to delay work to work overtime - you still get paid more, but you don't increase your hourly rate.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#863

Post by labcomputer »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #817
minimuffins wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in film and TV unions aren't actors.

I was responding to a particular comment that was talking about the mechanics of these entertainment unions with respect to actors specifically: > First, the film unions provide useful benefits (like reasonably-priced health insurance), so most professional actors want to be part of the union. Second, union members are prohibited from working on non-union productions. Additionally, most well-known actors are union me…

> I was responding to a particular comment that was talking about the mechanics of these entertainment unions with respect to actors specifically:

I get your point, but I was just using SAG to give a concrete example. The rules are broadly similar for the other film industry unions as well, with similar effects (and other roles have "industry-famous" if not "mom and dad famous" talent).

I suspect you'd get similar dynamics if, for example, a large cohort of the staff/principle engineers plus a bunch of senior engineers in the valley joined the SWE Local 16384. It's probably not necessary that your mom and dad have heard of them.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#864

Post by LambdaComplex »

halflings wrote: post #697

On this group's homepage [1]: "We are BIPOC workers who fight against totalitarianism." I am not sure what this has to do with unionizing Google workers. Using obscure acronyms to arbitrarily focus on race and ethnicity (something frowned upon here in Europe at least) + the hyperbole of "fighting totalitarianism" doesn't give me great confidence that this is representing workers, as much as it is pushing the ideology…

I'm all for fighting against totalitarianism, but I feel like it's kinda weird to get a job at Google if you actually care about that

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#865

Post by enriquec »

grogenaut wrote: post #698
avianlyric wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People don't want to leave a cushy job for one where they would have to work harder for their money, so instead, they are trying other means to have their cake and eat it too. You're saying this like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't employees expect, and get, better working conditions? > engineers can "collectively bargain" with Google by simply leaving and working somewhere "better" How is individuals leaving "coll…

Honest question: how do unions help with sexual harassment? The me too movement seemed much more focused on hollywood. Unions didn't seem to stop Weinstein.

Not to mention the state of police unions

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#866

Post by pbhjpbhj »

esoterica wrote: post #703
ddingus wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The better organizers will have a priority discussion. What terms improve things for everyone? How should work be? From there, they build solidarity around those terms. When the vision maps to 80 / 90 percent of labor at that enterprise, the effort to unionize can win.

> What terms improve things for everyone? How should work be? There is no such thing as "improving things for everyone" because different people have different preferences. Some people want job stability, some people want work life balance, some people just want to get paid, fuck everything else. If a union tries to pursue some priorities over others they are screwing over all the employees who have different prefere…

Join a different union?

If your union refuses to let workers be exploited for unpaid overtime, but you really like working to make other people rich, leave!?

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#868

Post by dogprez »

spicyramen wrote: post #808

Downvote me if you want, but as a SWE I find my job very highly rewarded both economically and technically. I'm happy where I am and in my team. I'm a minority and I have study all my life to be competitive, I have been treated fairly because of my skills. Free food, gym, coffee, stocks, high salaries, mobility, not sure I can ask for more

I can't speak the the intent of the union in the article but after all of those things you listed you might want to know that your colleagues are getting treated fairly as well. For example, how would you feel about all your benefits if you learned there were contractors that did your same job that didn't have access to the same benefits that you have and haven't been given an avenue to earn those benefits? (https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2019-11-08...)

Or, how would your feel if the product you worked on was being produced with slave labor? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-te...) Would it be enough to just say, "I'm not ok with that, I'll work somewhere else." or do you think you should have some say about how your work is used?

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#869

Post by RHSeeger »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #861
pwned1 wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the cart before the horse. Tell me I'm signing up for something that I have no idea how it will turn out, and then present me with a take it or leave it contract months later. And I'm stuck.

I (from the UK) don't understand: you don't have to join a union. Keep your current contract and don't have a say in Union representation and negotiation, if that's what you want. It's 'take greater combined power against the corporation you work for' (and in things like representation of your industry before government) or stand on your own as you do now. I don't understand how it's possible to lose? You can even wi…

In a lot of cases, once there's a union you're either in it or unemployed. Unions have a lot of benefits and a lot of negatives. But voting to have one without knowing what _this specific one_ will have either way, knowing that you _must_ be part of it if it passes... that's not a clear decision.

Re: A group of Google workers have announced plans to unionize

#870

Post by astura »

jonas21 wrote: post #820
objclxt wrote: post #38

When I talk to colleagues in tech about unions I hear a lot of misconceptions, seemingly based in stereotypes about what unions are for and who they serve. People often seem to think of unions as being purely blue-collar operations, and this just isn't true. For example, I've had people tell me that they don't support unions in tech because they'll be "paid less", or less competent engineers will be promoted faster.…

Are you really holding up the film industry as a model that tech should emulate? Because the median annual wage for SAG-AFTRA members is about $7500 [1]. And that doesn't even include members who failed to find any work during the year. 85% of members don't make enough to get health benefits through the union, which kick in if you make over $18K/year [2]. These are poverty-level wages. [1] https://www.smdp.com/notewo…

Um, that seems like a consequence of the nature of acting, which is short term gigs with lots of competition rather than a consequence of unionization.

The only actor I personally know just does it on the side for some extra cash rather than it being her day job.

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