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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#851

Post by laverya »

geocar wrote: post #708
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted this because you're ignoring iMessage. The fact that Apple purposefully not only gives Android users a shitty experience when communicating with iOS users, but also ensures that the presence of an Android user can break the experience for everyone else in a group chat (e.g. degraded videos now for everyone) in iMessage is a blatant attempt to abuse their monopoly power (in the US at least where iMessage d…

> Apple doesn't even need to make an Android version of iMessage, they just need to support RCS instead of SMS/MMS: https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ Or Google could have just licensed iMessage. RCS is not a consumer benefit: RCS gives strange powers to the carrier that your phone connects to (as opposed to the company you contract with; i.e. your mobile carrier), powers over your camera, microphone, radio, po…

I think a lot of Android manufacturers would be willing to pay Apple for iMessage access/licensing. I strongly doubt that Apple would be willing to sell that without the EU forcing them to.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#852

Post by dml2135 »

maratc wrote: post #785
Moldoteck wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you say iphone can offer alternate stores/sideload and still keep old behavior for users that want to stay in apple's ecosystem? So why lock down iphone then? Consumers that want it locked down, will keep their old routines...

No, as alternate stores will change the experience for everybody. I download 0 new apps per year, but I use WhatsApp, Outlook, and Google Maps. Today, I get them all from one store - one password to remember, one credit card to have, one stupid set of "security questions" to forget the answers. Tomorrow, Facebook AppStore will be the only place to get WhatsApp, Microsoft AppStore will be the only place to get Outlook…

Drop the “app” from store for a second and make your argument again, except imagine a scenario where there is just one physical store for all the consumer goods you need, and you’d be upset about that being broken up because now you’ll be inconvenienced.

But what you won’t be is under the thumb of a single company that has way too much power over you.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#853

Post by greazy »

donatj wrote: post #753
anhner wrote: post #693

I remember years ago, when the EU first announced they would force Apple to switch to USB-C (well, not specifically Apple, but mandate a single cable type), there were droves of users on HN wailing that "what business does EU have to dictate which cable companies should use?" Yet here we are, everyone praising iPhone 15 for having a USB-C connector. I am looking forward to a couple of years down the line when we can…

With no regard for specified speed / power capabilities, USB-C is in and of itself a vastly physically inferior connection. It becomes easily impacted with pocket lint, and the tolerances are so small it can't be cleaned with normal tools. Not even just the phone, but the cable as well. I'm an Android user and I have spent years dreaming that Apple would just open Lightning to the community. I am kind of lightly thri…

I've had Macbooks with USB c chargers for few years now. I've never had any of these problems. On the other hand I had to delint my sisters phone because the charger wouldn't full connect.

Tbh I think there's very little difference in their physical properties. Both work well.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#854

Post by tzs »

noirscape wrote: post #707
robertlagrant wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If V8 becomes a monopoly, and with it chromium, then Google can finally be "properly" hit with an antitrust case over Chrome V8 isn't a monopoly in the antitrust sense, at all. Google gives away the source code to most of Chrome that allows other people to make browsers with it, and they do. Something being popular doesn't indicate a monopoly. Microsoft could choose to make a browser engine, but they don't, and it'…

Yeah I reworded it - I meant Blink. And no, I'd argue that just because it's open source doesn't change that it's an antitrust-worthy browser. The obvious problem being the conflict of interest in developing a browser (which is meant to serve users) and an advertising platform (which is meant to serve business customers). That alone should have prevented Google from entering that field, but here we are. --- In a tech…

> The obvious problem being the conflict of interest in developing a browser (which is meant to serve users) and an advertising platform (which is meant to serve business customers). That alone should have prevented Google from entering that field, but here we are.

Considering that probably 90+% of the content that the average person uses their browser to browse to is paid for by ads, and there is no other existing business model that would currently [1] be workable to pay for creating and distributing 90% of that content, I think you'd have a very hard time making a winning legal argument that Google's advertising platform does not serve users.

[1] There are things that are workable technically, but they either require cooperation from many governments to change how they handle sales taxes or VAT because otherwise accepting micropayments from customers is a tax collecting and reporting nightmare or they require websites to sell the content through third party marketplaces that will act as the legal seller and handle the taxing so that the websites are only dealing with one potentially international relationship (if the marketplace company is not in their country). But consumers don't want to have to have accounts with a bunch of different content marketplaces, so for this to not end up like video streaming has (Netflix, Disney+, HBO, Peacock, Paramount, Hulu, Apple, Amazon, ...) which would be a million times worse for websites we probably need to end up with at most two marketplaces which together cover pretty much everything.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#855

Post by maratc »

MaKey wrote: post #803
maratc wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, as alternate stores will change the experience for everybody. I download 0 new apps per year, but I use WhatsApp, Outlook, and Google Maps. Today, I get them all from one store - one password to remember, one credit card to have, one stupid set of "security questions" to forget the answers. Tomorrow, Facebook AppStore will be the only place to get WhatsApp, Microsoft AppStore will be the only place to get Outlook…

Given that this scenario hasn't happened with Android, which allows sideloading, this argument seems like baseless fearmongering to me.

Given that this scenario has happened on the PC side of things, where I now need to have a Steam store, Epic store, EA Store, Ubi store, and GOG store (it's optional — thanks GOG!), I'd say it's not as baseless.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#856

Post by grishka »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #517
grishka wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good solution to apps wanting to track your every click is not organizational but technical. Just don't give them APIs for reliable cross-app tracking. That advertising ID? It simply does not need to exist at all . Same for all the attribution bullshit. Besides, sideloading enables installation of modded apps giving users more choice.

That’s what we have now… Once the platform is open you can’t deny them API access.

But you can have sensitive APIs behind permission prompts

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#857

Post by maratc »

dml2135 wrote: post #852
maratc wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, as alternate stores will change the experience for everybody. I download 0 new apps per year, but I use WhatsApp, Outlook, and Google Maps. Today, I get them all from one store - one password to remember, one credit card to have, one stupid set of "security questions" to forget the answers. Tomorrow, Facebook AppStore will be the only place to get WhatsApp, Microsoft AppStore will be the only place to get Outlook…

Drop the “app” from store for a second and make your argument again, except imagine a scenario where there is just one physical store for all the consumer goods you need, and you’d be upset about that being broken up because now you’ll be inconvenienced. But what you won’t be is under the thumb of a single company that has way too much power over you.

I like the experience more than the alternatives, so I'm not ready to switch it for what is for me a worse experience. You probably won't be able to convince me otherwise.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#858

Post by tmtvl »

kibwen wrote: post #275
HWR_14 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google search, Youtube and many other properties will only work with Chromium as soon as it doesn't mean saying goodbye to iOS users.

The mindset here is so alien to me. Do people think that the EU is willing to take action against Apple, and yet somehow unwilling to take action against Google?

The EU has already shown itself willing to fine Google for antitrust shenanigans: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/14/tech/google-loses-eu-fine...

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#859

Post by fennecfoxy »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #516
nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

I don’t want Facebook to be able to say that I can’t use Whatsapp unless I install their rootkit store.

Then don't use Whatsapp if that's the case? I notice so many people complaining about so many things but they refuse to boycott them.

If >x% of the population actually take action on any issue, it'll get solved.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#860

Post by oblio »

hotnfresh wrote: post #849
oblio wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentives are exactly the same, $$$. And you're making it out like the Play Store is worth peanuts. https://cybercrew.uk/software/app-store-vs-play-store/#h3 App Store led with an estimated revenue of $85.1 billion in 2021 Google Play Store generated revenues of nearly $47.9 billion in 2021. Nobody's ever going to try something shady for "just" $47.9 billion :-)))

… and the platform’s more restrictive. There were two factors I mentioned. And that’s just store revenue—it’ll skew harder toward Apple if you include other ways of making money on mobile. I don’t recall Facebook publicly throwing any tantrums over Play Store policy changes. It’s also possible that being able to put a store on both platforms is the kind of thing that would get, say, Facebook to expand the Quest softw…

Knowing the EU, further privacy policies are probably going to be announced at some point, greatly crippling the current form of targeted advertising, including on Android.
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