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Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

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Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#851

Post by soylentnewsorg »

zimpenfish wrote: post #678
soylentnewsorg wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do get it - you define pro as a guy at work running his backup application in a web browser, and the hipster at starbucks doing "graphic design." I define pro as "a workstation." The m1 does not emulate x86. You literally don't know what you're talking about. Which explains why you define a kid's toy as "pro." I get it - you're getting paid. So is the barista at the starbucks you work from. Kia might define their k…

> The m1 does not emulate x86. You literally don't know what you're talking about. What is it doing when it runs x86_64 binaries then?

[flagged]

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#852

Post by soylentnewsorg »

falkaer wrote: post #671
soylentnewsorg wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do get it - you define pro as a guy at work running his backup application in a web browser, and the hipster at starbucks doing "graphic design." I define pro as "a workstation." The m1 does not emulate x86. You literally don't know what you're talking about. Which explains why you define a kid's toy as "pro." I get it - you're getting paid. So is the barista at the starbucks you work from. Kia might define their k…

The M1 (laptops) do emulate x86, and the M1 (chip) has a few x86 specific instructions to improve emulation performance

I love how you added "laptop" to make your statement... still false. There is a program running on macos that literally recompiles x86 binaries to arm, then the m1 executes the arm code. the m1 does not execute x86 binaries. period. it only runs arm binaries.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#853

Post by soylentnewsorg »

true_religion wrote: post #650
soylentnewsorg wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do get it - you define pro as a guy at work running his backup application in a web browser, and the hipster at starbucks doing "graphic design." I define pro as "a workstation." The m1 does not emulate x86. You literally don't know what you're talking about. Which explains why you define a kid's toy as "pro." I get it - you're getting paid. So is the barista at the starbucks you work from. Kia might define their k…

Hipster graphic designers make upwards of 150,000 a year in my area. The professional in pro, never actually meant “software engineer”. It meant anyone who can hang up their signboard and work on their own: lawyers, doctors, architects, and yes… graphic designers. Personally, I think software engineers don’t need fast laptops either. We need mainframes and fast local networks. Nothing beats compiling at the speed of…

> 150,000 a year in my area.

which is the top of their salary ceiling, and it's not a high number, like at all. the top number for software devs is about 700k. In my field, people make 200k+. But we're not talking about "pro" people. We're talking about a "pro" laptop. It's the best thing that apple makes - that doesn't make it "pro." It's got the performance of the midrange systems from everyone else.

>I think software engineers don’t need fast laptops either. yeah, when I run a script to read a few gig of performance data and do a bunch of calculations on it, I need a fast laptop. Until that's done, I'm sitting there, CPU maxed out, not able to do anything else. With an M1, I have to arrange my schedule to process the dataset overnight. With a Dell I run it over lunch. Case closed.

>We need mainframes and fast local networks. Nothing beats compiling at the speed of 192 cores at once.

I'm not a software engineer anymore. When I was, no, I did not usually compile on the server. I compiled on my workstation. Because you're not on a fast local network. You're at an airport for 4 hours, or on a plane for 5 hours, or on a comcast connection at your house.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#854

Post by soylentnewsorg »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #719
soylentnewsorg wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well now, you've successfully argued that arm cpus are faster than server-grade processors for heavy workloads, using hand-picked misinformation. congratulations - you are now a trump voter. btw, that dell line had a 4k display 5 years ago, and it does refresh at 120hz. i know apple announced it's "almost 4k 120hz" display as new and groundbreaking. i had a friend in the elevator show off his awesome new iphone x old…

>arm cpus are faster than server-grade processors They are way more efficient as server cores. https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/graviton/

if you define efficiency as compute per watt. I don't give a flying crap about watts. Efficiency is measured as amount of work done per hour. Because I get paid for the work, and then I pay the two dollars a week for the watts. I don't care if it's five dollars a week for the watts or two. I do care if it's two hours of waiting time versus five.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#855

Post by soylentnewsorg »

noahtallen wrote: post #583
soylentnewsorg wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how you read the first line, ignore the rest of the paragraph addressing your specific point, then proudly strut around like you called out a gotcha. "bud." Dell Precision. 6 core xeon, 128GB RAM, 9 hour battery life. Thin and under 7lb. Metal and solid, can run over it w/ a car just like the Lenovo you're talking about. Has had a 4k screen and keyboards that don't break or imprint on the display. 5 years ago.…

You probably wouldn’t have gotten downvoted as much if people hadn’t (ironically?) read the part you said they wouldn’t read :p And I want to mention that I agree with you about apple not selling to pros very well over the past 6 years. Your laptop is definitely very capable. But it’s barely a laptop. Why not build out a proper desktop? This precision would be a pain in the ass to carry around for most people, especi…

it's because you're using "geekbench" for your numbers. which is a combined number of misleading stats. it includes things like "encoding video" and "rendering html" - things that the m1 has specific optimizations for, which in the real world are done by the NVIDIA RTX on my Dell, with the CPU sitting at under 1% utilization. Yes, if you offload these tasks, which in the real world don't use the CPU at all, and run it on a CPU with special accelerators for these useless tasks, the CPU designed specifically to game "geekbench" metrics will win. In the real world, I got a multi-gig dataset I need to process and do calculations on. Go put a database on the M1 and see if it beats a xeon. Or for an easier test, just load up excel with lots of functions and lots of calculated rows and columns. Run that while running a couple of VMs for virtual appliances on your laptop too (128GB ECC RAM helps with that).

You're literally here saying the M1 is going to replace a server chip. Newsflash - the M1 doesn't even run any of the needed code, because it's arm code - a small niche.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#856

Post by soylentnewsorg »

dijit wrote: post #630
soylentnewsorg wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does use ECC RAM. Didn't bother reading the rest of your comment, probably something about some china virus being fake. The big question is, why would you have sex with a sheep. See, I can make up stuff too and add some sarcastic useless filler to spam this site.

I’ve had enough of this. Post your part number and the model number of your ram. Anything less and you’re trolling. It is common for Dell Precisions to ship with Xeons and not ECC ram.

here's one with ecc ram from 2 years ago.

https://www.servethehome.com/dell-precision-7540-with-intel-...

in fact, i'm not sure you can even order a xeon precision w/o ecc ram. but i'm not here to do your research for you for things you can look up in a minute. you're the one that claimed a xeon precision doesn't come w/ ecc ram, without even googling it.

my laptop is a 7660. I also have an i7 5560, and a latitude 7410 w/ an I7. It's what work gives me for work - and yes, I use all 3 since we went full remote. For "pro" work. The M1 laptop is comparable to my 7410 - which I use to play online games and chromecast videos. Not any real work. It's a kids toy compared to my 7660.

since you seem to be lost here on this tech site, instead of hanging out on reddit with your peers: all xeon CPUs support ECC ram. If you want you can go on ebay, buy ECC ram, and put it in any Xeon system. Or, you know, just order it w/ ECC ram from Dell.

>It is common for Dell Precisions to ship with Xeons and not ECC ram.

correct. because most come with 16 or 32GB or RAM, and are the low end of Dell's pro line. Once you get a lot of RAM, like 64 or 128GB, and you're crunching numbers and running VMs, your chances of a memory error go up dramatically. Which is why you need ECC RAM. Which has zero to do with your post that I was replying to, claiming precisions don't have ecc ram. now find me an m1 laptop with 128GB of ECC RAM. Because you're right - "Enough" strawman astroturfing from you.

The M1 is a Latitude competitor - not a Precision competitor. Apple's "pro" line is considered mid-tier from other vendors. Their tests showing it beats xeons are comparing xeons released 2 years ago, that for some reason they used in their apple laptops. Because Apple has always used outdated CPUs compared to everyone else.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#857

Post by yazaddaruvala »

Closi wrote: post #308
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not clear to me that Apple will make a desktop-class processor. The unit economics likely don't make sense for them. All of Apple's innovation seems to be towards better and cheaper AR/VR hardware. Desktop-class processors would be a distraction for them. And with all of the top cloud players building custom silicon these days, there is little room for Apple to sell CPUs to the server market even if they were inc…

IMO it's obvious that there will need to be a desktop version - and all the rumours are pointing towards a Mac Pro release with silly specs - i.e. an SOC with something like 40/64+ cores. Why would Apple want to give up their portion of the high-power desktop market to Windows? What's the alternative? That they release another Mac Pro with intel, despite their stated intention to move everything away from x86, or tha…

> Why would Apple want to give up their portion of the high-power desktop market to Windows?

I guess the question is, to what end?

- Apple hasn't had a good history with B2B sales. Evidenced by them getting out of the server business.

- Apple doesn't want to be a cloud infra company. Evidenced by them using other cloud providers to host iCloud.

- Maybe, Apple will one day sell servers again, or sell M1-like chips to cloud providers. However, we have no evidence of this. Apple prefers B2C products with 5-6 year refresh cycles. Their superpower is vertical integration rather than selling a single component.

- Cloudtops are becoming more and more popular, in-tandem with a powerful-enough laptop to appropriately hold local state such that the UX is responsive. Large companies that do software development, ML training, VFX, etc are already using cloudtops.

That said, small companies and individuals haven't yet started using cloudtops for intellectual property creation and a Mac Pro could still help their workflows.

With that in mind, where does Apple grow this high performance market? If there is no future for this market, why invest into any R&D? Let the Windows ecosystem continue to handle it for the few years it still exists.

Meanwhile, to help those small companies and individuals improve their current workflows, maybe Apple will release one or two more Mac Pros, but more likely than not all Mac Pro development will stop. I'm likely wrong about all of this but I feel, Apple will instead offer a "seamless compute cloud". Similar to their strategy with https://developer.apple.com/xcode-cloud/ they will likely release a general purpose service for "cloud cores" i.e. the machine will locally have 6 high-performance cores, 2 high-efficiency cores, and ∞ remote-performance cores that are seamlessly integrated and run Apple's Universal Binary in "their cloud" (likely through AWS/Azure/GCP). Then no matter what the workflow is (e.g. photo/video/audio/game editing) you get a local preview (e.g. a low-res render locally) but in parallel the final product is built remotely and the data mirrored back to your local machine.

The only other reasons to keep building beefy machines like Mac Pro are for iCar Self Driving or to sell "cloudtops" (as I described in the paragraph earlier) but in a B2C context, i.e. the cloudtop runs in your local LAN/WAN or even as your home's Wifi router to reduce latency and accelerate all the Apple devices on the network. However, its not clear if they will invest in the software first or the hardware first for this distributed compute future.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#858

Post by klelatti »

hajile wrote: post #288
klelatti wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a little surprised - presumably the thermal limitations on a 16 inch laptop are potentially less limiting than on a 13 inch one so that single core could be pushed to a higher frequency?

M1 uses TSMC high-density rather than high-performance. They get 40-60% better transistor density and less leakage (power consumption) at the expense of lower clockspeeds. Also, a core is not necessarily just limited by power. There are often other considerations like pipeline length that affect final target clocks. The fact is that at 3.2GHz, the M1 is very close to a 5800X in single-core performance. When that 5800…

Maybe this is a reflection of the 16 inches higher thermal envelope?

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/21/new-macbook-pros-high-p...

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#859

Post by ksml »

soylentnewsorg wrote: post #851
zimpenfish wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The m1 does not emulate x86. You literally don't know what you're talking about. What is it doing when it runs x86_64 binaries then?

[flagged]

Please stop being so hostile to other users. It really doesn't add anything. You have made some factually questionable comments yourself, and I say this as someone who has worked on JIT aarch64 translation very similar to Rosetta 2.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#860

Post by peoplefromibiza »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #799
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In this scenario, would you render things in a cafe? Why not? honestly, as a traveler and sometimes digital nomad, the real question is "why yes?" There is no real reason to work in a cafe, except because it looks cool to some social audience. Cafes are usually very uncomfortable work places, especially if you have to sit for hours looking at the tiniest of the details as one often does when rendering.

Maybe you’re hungry but it’s crunch time. It’s like when the iPad came out and had a camera. “Who is going to lug around an iPad to take pictures!?!?” But that’s exactly what I started seeing people do. Pull out iPads and take snaps.

what's your point?
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