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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#851

Post by maxerickson »

slibhb wrote: post #828
js2 wrote: post #702

The risk of dying from a blood clot after receiving the J&J vaccine is six in 6,800,000 (6.8M). The world population is 7,900,000,000 (7.9B). If everyone on the planet got the J&J vaccine tomorrow, and if it is the cause of the clots, then 6,971 people would die from the vaccine. Yesterday, Covid19 killed 8,803 people (according to worldometers). We don't want anyone to die from vaccination, and we don't fully unders…

If there is solid evidence that a vaccine will kill people, it should not be used. It's intolerable that people die taking a prophylactic. It's much, much worse to kill someone with a vaccine than to allow that person to perhaps die of a virus. Thankfully, in this case, sanity prevailed.

There's solid evidence that foods kill people.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#852

Post by wholinator2 »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #555
JediWing wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were the case it would be odd that this is happening a.) in a consistent subset of women 18-38 b.) that it would emerge in a 1-shot regimen rather than a 2-shot regimen, because it would seem more likely that any one individual would experience this more frequently with 2 chances for human error rather than 1

The Pfizer & Moderna 2-shot vaccines use mRNA instead of an adenovirus vector. The AZ vaccine is 2 shot, but also uses a similar adenovirus vector - the bloodclot issue has also been seen in the AZ vaccine which has led to some countries in Europe not allowing it for women under 60.

Yes, we know that. But what does adenovirus vs mRNA have to do with aspirating an injection? Does the adenovirus become more dangerous when accidentally placed in a blood vessel?

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#853

Post by roody15 »

newaccount7 wrote: post #798
tacitusarc wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6 obvious deaths that we're aware of. The risk of the vaccines is in their novelty and morbidity. An abundance of caution is required in this instance. It would be very bad to discover that there's a vanishingly small chance of blood clots within the first 3 months but a significant chance when paired with other events over the following decade.

So I created a new account for this to avoid linking personal information... I had blood clots in my lungs last week a few days after getting the J&J vaccine. I'm an otherwise totally healthy man in my 30s, no preconditions. The hospital reported it to the vaccine reporting agency, which I assume is reviewing all this information. I'm not sure if they considered my case when making this decision. My clots were differ…

I agree for the US to pause the rollout is likely based on more data than 6 known cases of clotting. Not trying to be conspiratorial but my two cents is the authorities have more data then what is publicly being shared.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#854

Post by lucasmullens »

chrisco255 wrote: post #843
newaccount7 wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I created a new account for this to avoid linking personal information... I had blood clots in my lungs last week a few days after getting the J&J vaccine. I'm an otherwise totally healthy man in my 30s, no preconditions. The hospital reported it to the vaccine reporting agency, which I assume is reviewing all this information. I'm not sure if they considered my case when making this decision. My clots were differ…

These are not vaccines. They are gene therapy marketed as vaccines. No one has any clue as to their long term side effects. The under 30 odds of death for Covid-19 are statistically zero percent. The rush to inject a brand new medication into the entire world pop without regards for individual risk profile is ridiculous, reckless, madness.

> No one has any clue as to their long term side effects. The under 30 odds of death for Covid-19 are statistically zero percent.

Can't you flip that around? No one has any clue as to the long term side effects of Covid-19. The under 30 odds of death for getting the vaccine are statistically zero percent.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#855

Post by TrevorJ »

lupire wrote: post #818
TrevorJ wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The risk of dying from a blood clot after receiving the J&J vaccine is six in 6,800,000 (6.8M) that we know of . I suspect the lack of understanding about what is happening, and what other knock-on effects there might be is what is behind this. If a wing falls off of one airplane in a million, we still stop and try to figure out what happened because as far as we know, wings are not supposed to fall off any airplane…

Every day, 300 people in USA get a blood clot. It's not wanted, but it's expected. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dvt/features/blood-clot-risk.html

I had wondered about this as well - in the pool of people who have gotten the J&J vaccine, how many would we expect to have developed a blood clot under normal circumstances anyway?

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#856

Post by titzer »

chrisco255 wrote: post #843
newaccount7 wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I created a new account for this to avoid linking personal information... I had blood clots in my lungs last week a few days after getting the J&J vaccine. I'm an otherwise totally healthy man in my 30s, no preconditions. The hospital reported it to the vaccine reporting agency, which I assume is reviewing all this information. I'm not sure if they considered my case when making this decision. My clots were differ…

These are not vaccines. They are gene therapy marketed as vaccines. No one has any clue as to their long term side effects. The under 30 odds of death for Covid-19 are statistically zero percent. The rush to inject a brand new medication into the entire world pop without regards for individual risk profile is ridiculous, reckless, madness.

110+ million vaccinations in the US and holy goddamn, no major issues. 31 million infections and 550,000+ dead, in a year. Millions of long haul COVID cases. Debilitating lung conditions, brain fog, lasting consequences already from the virus, and you wanna crow about long term consequences of the vaccine. What in the actual roasting hell.

I've noticed you, specifically, posting pro-virus misinformation since the very beginning. Half a million people died, man. I wish you would just spare us your trolling, damn it!

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#857

Post by chrisco255 »

titzer wrote: post #856
chrisco255 wrote: post #843

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not vaccines. They are gene therapy marketed as vaccines. No one has any clue as to their long term side effects. The under 30 odds of death for Covid-19 are statistically zero percent. The rush to inject a brand new medication into the entire world pop without regards for individual risk profile is ridiculous, reckless, madness.

110+ million vaccinations in the US and holy goddamn, no major issues. 31 million infections and 550,000+ dead, in a year. Millions of long haul COVID cases. Debilitating lung conditions, brain fog, lasting consequences already from the virus, and you wanna crow about long term consequences of the vaccine . What in the actual roasting hell. I've noticed you, specifically, posting pro-virus misinformation since the ve…

You have no idea, those people received this treatment 2 months ago. You absolutely have no clue what long term effects are one year out, five years out, 10 years out.

Stop violating people's human rights to make their own individual medical choices. Their body, their choice, none of your business.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#858

Post by FooHentai »

slibhb wrote: post #841
IvyMike wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there is solid evidence that a vaccine will kill people, it should not be used. Don't all vaccines have some extremely low but nonzero probability of killing someone? > It's intolerable that people die taking a prophylactic. What do you think about airbags in cars?

If airbags kill someone who didn't crash their car, that model of car/airbag should be recalled. If a vaccine kills someone, people should stop taking that vaccine. The point here is simple. It's worse for someone to die of a vaccine than for someone to die of the coronavirus. How much worse is up for debate, but it's a significant factor and napkin math has to take that into account or it's morally bankrupt.

I think I see your point but the probabilities are an important factor, as well as the freedom to choose based on being well informed. Unfortunately at this stage we don’t have sufficient information to provide solid information to make an informed choice.

If there’s (hypothetical overly high numbers here) a 10% chance of dying from a disease or a 1% chance of dying from the vaccine from that disease, I want the vaccine and would like the freedom to do so. But if a new vaccine is coming out and soon after we see a 1% death rate from it, now I’m gonna want to hold off and take my chances with the disease because that 1% may turn out to be as high as or greater than 10% down the track when more is known.

The main complexity here is just like the early days of coronavirus - until things have played out for a while you can’t have confidence about the extent of the harm and that’s true for both the disease (which we now have over a year of information about) and the vaccines (which we have a month or two of in-the-wild info so far).

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#859

Post by Invictus0 »

bluGill wrote: post #463
josephcsible wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like it'd be easy to fix: the government just needs to say "as soon as you're fully vaccinated, you don't need to social distance or wear a mask in public anymore". Since that isn't their position, there's basically zero incentive for young, healthy people to risk the vaccine side effects.

That is one option. Which is why so many anti-vac people have jumped on the no vaccine passport bandwagon. If there is no way to prove you have been vaccinated, then they can lie about it and take part in non-masked public activity (I'm not sure why they are against the mask). There are other options. Give everyone who has got the vaccine some money is one I've heard more than once. Maybe someone else has a different…

Krispy Kreme gave vaccinated people free donuts and it led to an anti-vax outrage here in the States.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#860

Post by newaccount7 »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #838
newaccount7 wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I created a new account for this to avoid linking personal information... I had blood clots in my lungs last week a few days after getting the J&J vaccine. I'm an otherwise totally healthy man in my 30s, no preconditions. The hospital reported it to the vaccine reporting agency, which I assume is reviewing all this information. I'm not sure if they considered my case when making this decision. My clots were differ…

The PR release tells people to watch for pain in their legs. So I think it’s possible and likely that clots are not only cerebral but arterial and venous. But, IDK and I’m super skeptical they’re willing to halt vaccine and take this hit for 6 known cases. My guess is 6 deaths they’re willing to acknowledge and a few more cases that will come out. But again, I know nothing and I would’ve expected their stock price to…

Thanks. As I've now learned, almost all of these clots originate in the legs and pelvis and then travel to other parts of the body (lungs, brain).

So I think that's why they're telling people to watch for leg pain. I didn't have any issues with my legs, but it's apparently a common symptom to have pain and swelling there.

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