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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#841

Post by IshKebab »

altairprime wrote: post #452
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

The UK government can’t put Apple out of business; Apple can easily afford to simply exit all business in the UK. The UK is betting that Apple’s greed outweighs their principles. Long odds.

> Apple can easily afford to simply exit all business in the UK.

Apple has shareholders, so no it can't (or more precisely, Tim Cook can't).

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#842

Post by alt227 »

wkat4242 wrote: post #141
maeil wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a UK citizen, is there anything I can do to dissuade this? If you voted for this Tory-lite government, then you can stop voting for any future Tory-lite governments. If you did not, there's not much you can do in practice without devoting your life to it.

But the Tories are not in power. Can't labour just repeal it?

Are you still under the impression that different political parties will actually do diffrent things? It even sounds like you think Labor are 'good' and the Tories are 'bad'. I think you may change this opinion after the next 4 years.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#843

Post by hollerith »

IshKebab wrote: post #841
altairprime wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK government can’t put Apple out of business; Apple can easily afford to simply exit all business in the UK. The UK is betting that Apple’s greed outweighs their principles. Long odds.

> Apple can easily afford to simply exit all business in the UK. Apple has shareholders, so no it can't (or more precisely, Tim Cook can't).

Google had shareholders in 2005 too or thereabouts when they publicly decided to abandon the Chinese search market for soft, fuzzy reasons (i.e., not because they were losing money on Chinese operations).

And as far as I know, they're still absent from the Chinese search market.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#844

Post by alt227 »

maeil wrote: post #102

From the macrumors thread: > So much for personal liberties. I'd like to give Labour the benefit of the doubt and assume this is a holdover from the last government knowing how fast the civil service actually works but given the Tory 3.0 plan they are going with I wouldn't put it passed them. >We didn't vote for this. You very much did vote for this, you voted for Labour under Keir Starmer and he did not particularly…

Its crazy how people still think one political party will be 'better' than another! I guess they must be young. After you have seen 10 or so government terms play out you soon learn.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#845

Post by alt227 »

elevatedastalt wrote: post #512

I feel Apple is one of the few companies that has the market power to say, Fuck you, we will just not sell or offer any services in your market, and I suspect that would be enough for voters to knock some sense into their government.

Please please please let them do that. I would love to see a UK without Apple devices!

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#846

Post by PaulRobinson »

defrost wrote: post #767
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They broke Enigma code, and since then their spy agencies have overweight influence?

Poland broke the Enigma code .. and built the first Bombes. Maybe you're thinking of William Thomas Tutte breaking the Tunny (sawfish) code?

Not quite right.

The Poles built a simpler machine that they called a "Bomba", a pre-cursor to the Bombes. Named for a dessert in a cafe near the Polish intelligence service offices where those early codebreakers worked, and because the French also received the intelligence from Poland, they transposed the name. :-)

In July 1939 the Poles had to hand everything over to the British because they knew it was all about to be lost, as they were months away from being invaded.

Unfortunately what the Polish handed over was not quite enough to break German naval enigma, and without that, the war would have been at worst lost, and at best lengthened by years.

The Poles got everything started. The Brits got it finished.

There were several other British innovations in code-breaking around the war time period though, including Tunny, and taken on aggregate it's clear Bletchley had a significant advantage in that space over every other country for a long, long time.

That of course does not excuse a demand for Apple's ADP to be back-doored.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#847

Post by Paradigma11 »

somenameforme wrote: post #791
Paradigma11 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think that is actually true in those cases. Relations with China were pretty cosy till they did a 180 around the second Bush administration and started all that Wolf Warrior diplomacy, 9 dotted line stuff, Hongkong crackdowns....... Regarding Russia, nobody really cared at all till it was absolutely impossible to ignore. Putin seems to think that he needs the west as an enemy to bolster his standing and power.…

That's a... unique take. You might want to check out the Century of Humiliation. [1] The one thing you do have right is that "good relations" in contemporary times seem to translate into "completely subservient, even to point of a willingness to engaging in self detrimental behavior if demanded." What happened around the second Bush administration was that China no longer had to be subservient, because their economy…

Regarding your edited added hegemony aspect. That is only true if you define subservience as curtailing your imperialist ambitions.

When the US was engaged in Afghanistan and Iraq the Bush admin and diplomatic circles floated the idea to get China to take on more responsibility in the South China Sea to help manage those territorial disputes.

After all the US was stretched thin and China had and would gain(ed) so much from the rule based order that surely they would be interested in maintaining the status quo and continue to prosper.

Well, next thing China released a map reaffirming their ridiculous 9 dotted line claims and dashed any hope of a cooperation.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#848

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

Auracle wrote: post #741
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Constitution also guarantees birthright citizenship, but that doesn't mean the government will actually respect that right. The US Constitution only holds as long as people are willing to defend it.

That amendment has never been tested in the grounds that the Trump administration is. It certainly wasn’t intended for the currently used purpose and will very much come down to “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” which anyone short of the best legal scholars in our country aren’t qualified to speak to.

The text of the amendment is as clear as day: anyone born in the US is automatically a citizen, with only a few, well defined exceptions (children of foreign diplomats).

The Supreme Court already ruled on the meaning of the amendment in 1898, so there's no possible ambiguity left.

Trump's executive order is just blatantly illegal.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#849

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

celdon25 wrote: post #721
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Constitution also guarantees birthright citizenship, but that doesn't mean the government will actually respect that right. The US Constitution only holds as long as people are willing to defend it.

Erm, a nationwide injunction was already made against that part of the executive order by a federal judge. You're the second person today I've seen try to imply that we're in a dictatorship because of that executive order. Whoever is spreading that misinformation should be fact-checked!

The president has ordered the bureaucracy to ignore the 14th Amendment. You may be blasé about that, and even consider pointing that out to be "misinformation," but I'm not. It's a sign that Constitutional rule in the US is in serious danger.

I'm not even going to get into all the other unconstitutional actions Trump has taken, such as appointing Elon Musk to lead the most powerful agency in the federal government without Senate advice and consent.

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