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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#841

Post by AsyncAwait »

I don't think Epic is doing anything but trying to pocket more for themselves, yet I also think that the comments here overstate how "aware" average people are about Apple's restrictions, tax etc.

I don't think most people would consider direct payment to reputable companies like Epic to be a particular security risk. I don't think most realize why they can't subscribe to Spotify from their iPhones, they think it's simply not implemented.

The thing is, Apple now holds a tremendous amount of power over a large set of the population. All the comments saying "just buy an Android" ignore the simple fact that you buying an Android does not change the fact that a significant portion of the market is elsewhere.

I'd be more OK with this if Apple was OK with displaying a 30% Apple tax on checkout. But the fact that they prevent apps from showing it and actively try to conceal it shows that they know most of their customers would ask questions about it, at the very least, likely question if the "benefits" they get in return are worth it.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#842

Post by Aeolun »

tinus_hn wrote: post #816
Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

Was that a surprise to you? And did you only notice after the period where you can return the phone for your money back, no questions asked?

No. It’s just the best of terrible alternatives.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#843

Post by LexGray »

Aeolun wrote: post #561
_qulr wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone is not a store. The App Store is a store. Epic wants to be on the iPhone, but not necessarily in the App Store. Ideally, Epic wants to run its own store on the iPhone. In any case, App Store is the only store in town, where the "town" is the 1.5 billion iOS users. If there's only 1 store, with no competing stores, that's an entirely different situation legally.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

It may suck that Apple makes decisions about what runs, but if rules are there then I would expect them to be enforced. The thing that ticks me off most about this game of chicken is the timing. Pretty much have 10s of kids stuck at home due to COVID-19 who use this to socialize and who have sunk in 10s of dollars getting their access yanked to what they paid for because Epic didn’t want to follow the rules any more. Epic basically is messing with kids when they could have just stuck to lawsuits.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#844

Post by powerapple »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #841

I don't think Epic is doing anything but trying to pocket more for themselves, yet I also think that the comments here overstate how "aware" average people are about Apple's restrictions, tax etc. I don't think most people would consider direct payment to reputable companies like Epic to be a particular security risk. I don't think most realize why they can't subscribe to Spotify from their iPhones, they think it's s…

Of course Epic wants to keep more of their profit to themselves. Especially if they have to give a way tens of millions not just a few thousands. I think it is fair for Apple to cap their charges. If they need to take a percentage, they should take a percentage of profit rather than sales to be honest. Unity model is a good example in my opinion.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#845

Post by bumblebritches5 »

mattmanser wrote: post #504
_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

> If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic?

Because Stripe, and Wells Fargo have competition.

Don't like Stripe? use Square.

Don't like Square? use one of the other dozens of competitors.

Don't like Wells Fargo? Use Bank of America, or one of the thousands of other banks and credit unions in the country.

Apple has no competition, it is in fact a monopoly, and this is monopoly abuse.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#846

Post by bumblebritches5 »

veilrap wrote: post #601
Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I bought a $1000 device because Apple gets to decide what can run on it. I like iOS, and I like that Apple provides a great user experience on the device. I was not in any way coerced into buying said device, and there are a plethora of other options for substitute devices had I wanted more control of what runs on the device, which I do not.

You wouldn't be forced to use other app stores...

As for me, I don't like that Gab and Voat are blocked from every iOS device in existence.

If I want to read that content, I should have the right to.

and don't even start with that huR dUr corporations don't have to have free speech legal argument.

Free speech is an idea, that companies violate to push their opinions onto society.

You think George Washington and Thomas Jefferson thought the idea of censoring speech by companies would ever happen beyond the right of the corporation to associate with who it pleases?

Absolutely not, they could not and didn't imagine society becoming so dominated by just a few companies and nobody doing a damn thing to stop it.

Ma Bell got broken up for much less.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#847

Post by trumpeta »

powerapple wrote: post #844
AsyncAwait wrote: post #841

I don't think Epic is doing anything but trying to pocket more for themselves, yet I also think that the comments here overstate how "aware" average people are about Apple's restrictions, tax etc. I don't think most people would consider direct payment to reputable companies like Epic to be a particular security risk. I don't think most realize why they can't subscribe to Spotify from their iPhones, they think it's s…

Of course Epic wants to keep more of their profit to themselves. Especially if they have to give a way tens of millions not just a few thousands. I think it is fair for Apple to cap their charges. If they need to take a percentage, they should take a percentage of profit rather than sales to be honest. Unity model is a good example in my opinion.

I think Apple is in the “real estate”/rent business here. if you compare that to how big malls operate it’s pretty similar. They take a fixed fee plus a cut from the revenue in exchange for foot traffic.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#848

Post by hirako2000 »

powerapple wrote: post #844
AsyncAwait wrote: post #841

I don't think Epic is doing anything but trying to pocket more for themselves, yet I also think that the comments here overstate how "aware" average people are about Apple's restrictions, tax etc. I don't think most people would consider direct payment to reputable companies like Epic to be a particular security risk. I don't think most realize why they can't subscribe to Spotify from their iPhones, they think it's s…

Of course Epic wants to keep more of their profit to themselves. Especially if they have to give a way tens of millions not just a few thousands. I think it is fair for Apple to cap their charges. If they need to take a percentage, they should take a percentage of profit rather than sales to be honest. Unity model is a good example in my opinion.

Afaik Unity royalties are based on revenue, not profit. Balance sheets are not difficult to mascarade, revenue is much harder to hide.

Though I agree a minimum revenue threshold would make sense. But that's not apples strategy. Their strategy is to subtly charge the massive amount of indie developers (developer account fee) and take 30% from the get go.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#849

Post by hirako2000 »

trumpeta wrote: post #847
powerapple wrote: post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course Epic wants to keep more of their profit to themselves. Especially if they have to give a way tens of millions not just a few thousands. I think it is fair for Apple to cap their charges. If they need to take a percentage, they should take a percentage of profit rather than sales to be honest. Unity model is a good example in my opinion.

I think Apple is in the “real estate”/rent business here. if you compare that to how big malls operate it’s pretty similar. They take a fixed fee plus a cut from the revenue in exchange for foot traffic.

And they are in a sort of Las Vegas real estate market, made global. It must be difficult for them to resist the treasure, especially when stakeholders want to see greater and greater returns.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#850

Post by ramy_d »

JiNCMG wrote: post #710
ramy_d wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mobile game discovery is big pain point for devs as well, and that none of Apple/Google seem to do anything about is frustrating. This is in sharp contrast to, say, steam, where discovery is something they are constantly trying to improve.

Funny cause both stores (App and Play) are always promoting games to me. Usually crap like Fortnite which stinks on any mobile device. Yes devs have to pay for those promos but just like in Steam, Retail and all the console markets you pay for marketing.

Yes you can pay for promotional spots on both mobile stores and steam, but that is not to say that they are remotely similar in terms of discoverability.

Discoverability would include things like a recommendation algorithm but also filtering features, promotional spotting, social graph relevance (do my friends own this game? do they want to?) and general UI accessibility, to name some factors.

Steam has put so much work into making sure users can find a title (regardless of that title's marketing budget) that fits their arbitrary preferences that they are now LEAGUES ahead of mobile stores on that metric.

One example that is easiest to point out is the main carousel (and entire front page) of the steam store. Everyone's carousel is customized to their profile and will show both old games and new based on an algo that weighs your preferences against a title's relevance and performance metrics.

The irony that google, a company that made its name in SEARCH, has an app store who's discoverability is so abysmal that i can't find certain titles without explicitly typing in the name or digging through 100s of "more titles like this" lists is not lost on me.

It's just really bad. The game categories are too few in numbers, and there's no tagging to speak of so finding something remotely hybrid is a pain and the categories themselves have become unhelpful.

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