Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#841

Post by bun_at_work » Wed, May 13, 2020, 12:31 PM UTC

jjjensen90 wrote: post #781

I always thought I enjoyed remote work as an engineer/architect, I did it for 6 months by my own volition before coming back. I am extremely unhappy. I really miss being in the office with my coworkers and friends. I've struggled deeply with overwhelming sadness at the idea of not going back anytime soon. My work has suffered from a lack of dynamic interactions. I get lots of focus time, just like I did at the office…

I've been very interested in remote work, like you said you were, and I'm worried about the same issues you discuss here. However, one of the things I've seen that I hope will mitigate these issues is the idea of not working at home, but still working remote. For example, getting work done at a coffee shop or public library, instead of home.

I'm worried that mixing my work and personal life too much will be a big strain on my mental health, but I plan to work at home as little as possible in the future, while still trying to work remote to avoid having to commute and enjoy a more flexible schedule. I hope this idea will help you!

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#842

Post by evancox100 » Wed, May 13, 2020, 12:35 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #766

twblalock wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAANG companies have already been trying to hire in US cities outside of Silicon Valley and Seattle in order to cut costs. Austin in particular comes to mind. It turns out to be fairly difficult to recruit engineering talent in the United States outside of major metropolitan areas. It also turns out that when tech companies start to hire people in a new city, the cost of living in that city rises substantially -- aga…

> It also turns out that when tech companies start to hire people in a new city, the cost of living in that city rises substantially -- again, Austin in particular comes to mind. That is inevitable if more housing is not built. If demand rises and supply doesn’t, or rises slower than demand rents and house prices rise. Or you could be like Tokyo with population growing 50% over the last twenty years and flat housing…

Do you know anything about Austin? There are cranes all over downtown, mid-rise apartment buildings sprouting up everywhere, etc. We’re certainly not perfect in terms of housing, could use more “missing middle” housing such as duplexes/triplexes/etc., but the idea we are not allowing new housing is crazy. Costs are still going up, definitely the most expensive big city in Texas at this point, but obviously nowhere near Bay Area levels.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#843

Post by bun_at_work » Wed, May 13, 2020, 12:39 PM UTC

acituan wrote: post #664

_nckn wrote: post #620

I think this is the hugest news yet. It suddenly opens the pool of candidates to all across the country. I expect other tech giants will follow suit. Those who previously can't afford or don't want to live in big cities like NYC/Seattle/SF because they are older, have families, or various other reasons now are included in the candidate pool. This can go two ways: either the local software business will have to compet…

I think you are overestimating the size of the eligible labor supply increase. Just for Google, for 2017-2019 the number of H1B workers sponsored was 22k. For the same period the increase in number of full time employees was 40k (couldn’t find the figure for US only but fair to assume majority is US-based). So more than half of the new employers are supplied internationally. Does the geo-unlocked US supply pose a sub…

I'm curious - you seem to be saying that FAANG companies can't find enough employees, but your support for the point is that Google hired a significant amount of H1B workers. However, I've read/seen that many H1B workers work for significantly less, and under more pressure, because they are trying to become citizens in the US. Is it possible that the reason for FAANG companies hiring so many H1B workers isn't due to shortage of qualified new employees, but instead because they are more efficient workers, due to the pressures and lower salary?

I went studied CS in Idaho and know many of my peers took significantly lower paying jobs than they are qualified for so they could remain in the area. I'm certain at least some of them would rather work for larger companies with higher salaries and better benefits (and more prestige), if it didn't mean moving into the BIG CITY and leaving their friends/family behind.

In reality, it's probably a mix of both.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#844

Post by Bella-Xiang » Wed, May 13, 2020, 12:40 PM UTC

I will go back to my office next week from WFH status. After almost 4 months WFH, I feel excited to work at the office because it's really hard to separate my work from life which made me more tired, although to be honest, sometimes I feel freer to work from home. And when you work from home , it seems like you are always online because the time you get off work is not so clear to your colleagues unless you strictly set your time.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#845

Post by wolco » Wed, May 13, 2020, 12:42 PM UTC

emiliobumachar wrote: post #335

wolco wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why keep the expensive office in your case?

If it gets even mildly popular, different companies with different meeting days could time-share an office.

A time share is a neat idea. Similiar tech companies would have closely related technology needs.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#846

Post by akg_67 » Wed, May 13, 2020, 12:45 PM UTC

I find it interesting how over 20-30 years corporations have reprogrammed people to believe working from home (WFH) is a perk and not a burden. And, people are celebrating how progressive these companies are. Twitter or any other company is not being benevolent by letting employees work from home, they figured out that they can shift a lot of their cost of real estate, utilities, and office furniture and equipment to employees. Will they compensate employees for allocating area of their home to office work, spending more on utilities, buying furniture and other tools for work?

Companies used to provide lot of benefit allowances for using personal items, space and time for company work like, home office, equipment, personal car, phone, on-call, education and training, etc. Slowly, slowly these benefits have been discontinued for everyone, except top executives, in the name of cost savings for the company, and such costs were shifted to employees. Based on such history of taking away benefits from rank and file and giving to top corporate executives, I doubt any of the corporate cost savings from WFH will go to employees.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#847

Post by ubermonkey » Wed, May 13, 2020, 12:48 PM UTC

I've posted about this here before, but since the end of the dot-com era (for me, 10/2001), I've ONLY worked at home except for travel, and a brief period early in one startup when we had an office in a tech incubator about a mile from my house.

(We realized it wasn't worth the rent, and gave it up after about 6 months.)

Some of those years were very travel heavy -- fullish time on the road -- but for the last 10 client travel has vanished in favor of GoToMeeting conferences.

I love it. I love the flexibility of it, I love not having a commute, and I love not having dry cleaning bills anymore. The music in my office is whatever I want. If I feel like it, I can catch a nap. And I love being able to eat at home, where one can make MUCH healthier choices.

People SAY they'd miss the water cooler, but in my whole career I've only had co-workers I really really liked on a social level in one company. It's rare.

My current employer -- where I've been for almost 13 years, which shocks me -- is entirely virtual. We have no office space anywhere, and the closest other employee to me is about 4 hours away by car. I have colleagues that, until recently, I'd never even seen a picture of.

I get that not everyone is constitutionally able to do this. I came to it from heavy travel (even pre-2001), so I was used to working in weird places (hotel rooms or lobbies; airport bars; frequent-flier clubs; taxis) already, and I think that made it easier.

I also get that it's not even appropriate for everyone, and that our success at my current company is tied to the fact that we have never had "entry level" developers. I think it'd be super hard to mentor and acculturate and teach this way.

But as for me, at this point I'd have a very hard time going back to an office.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#848

Post by eqdw » Wed, May 13, 2020, 12:48 PM UTC

akg_67 wrote: post #846

I find it interesting how over 20-30 years corporations have reprogrammed people to believe working from home (WFH) is a perk and not a burden. And, people are celebrating how progressive these companies are. Twitter or any other company is not being benevolent by letting employees work from home, they figured out that they can shift a lot of their cost of real estate, utilities, and office furniture and equipment to…

> I find it interesting how over 20-30 years corporations have reprogrammed people to believe working from home (WFH) is a perk and not a burden. And, people are celebrating how progressive these companies are.

There are a million and one examples I can think of, of companies repackaging burdens as perks while cynically using progressive reasoning to convince people to go along with it. Unlimited PTO, for example. Unlimited PTO is not unlimited, it's limited by whatever your boss gives you permission for. So say it's de-facto limited at 3 weeks. If you had explicit PTO of 3 weeks per year:

* It's a lot harder for your boss to arbitrarily stop you from taking it, especially if the year is almost over and you haven't taken it yet * If you don't take, it, they're legally obligated to pay it out

But when it's "unlimited"

* Boss mysteriously rejects it, or puts arbitrary constraints like "no more than 3 days contiguous" * If you don't take it, it's gone

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#849

Post by heelix » Wed, May 13, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

I've really come to miss the whiteboard walls. While we have digital tools, getting a couple people together and white boarding was super effective. The quality of my office at home is way better - large screens, comfortable chair, and no 'open office' acoustics. Nice to only put on the headset when on a call now.

I had a good bit of December off and did WFH most of January/February because the scrum team I was working with was distributed. Our primary location .. would go into the office once or twice a week to sort/connect on the larger issues (and not plan to get my stuff done, but rather help others). I do miss that.

Re: Twitter Will Allow Employees to Work at Home Forever

#850

Post by austincheney » Wed, May 13, 2020, 1:03 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #829

jjjensen90 wrote: post #781

I always thought I enjoyed remote work as an engineer/architect, I did it for 6 months by my own volition before coming back. I am extremely unhappy. I really miss being in the office with my coworkers and friends. I've struggled deeply with overwhelming sadness at the idea of not going back anytime soon. My work has suffered from a lack of dynamic interactions. I get lots of focus time, just like I did at the office…

> I really miss being in the office with my coworkers and friends. Are you young, single, and live in an apartment? I have noticed a divide along those lines with WFH. As an older, married person, living in a house with a yard, I haven't worked in an office for any length of time for last 10 years. None of my close friends are related to work. I like having lunch with my wife and going out back with the dogs when I n…

Age of children is also factor. I suspect people enjoy the escape an office provides when they have toddlers. I really enjoy having lunch with my teenage kids everyday thanks to Covid. Working from home has been a blessing.