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The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

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Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#841

Post by tayo42 »

standardUser wrote: post #811
tayo42 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's because nothings different then when it all started. If we open everything up we'll just see new cases again

There are a thousand gradients between the current lockdown and "open everything up". Almost no one is arguing we should open everything. Hearing this false choice over and over is getting old fast.

Currently workers on beef production are getting sick and factories are closing.

Now you can go to parks, beaches, grocery shopping, order food. What do you so deperately need to do? Have a beer in a bar? 80% of americans dont want to have anything start opening again.

And when you do force things open again you force workers who dont want to go back to work and feel its unsafe to go back to start working again, theres no benefits to recieve.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#842

Post by fasteddie31003 »

globular-toast wrote: post #722
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #577

I hate how the idea of reopening has split down political party lines. This is definitely not the time for partisanship. Now that Republicans have come out as pro-reopening, San Francisco will be the last city to reopen in the country. 0 COVID-19 infections will be too many.

It's so predictable. Intelligent people say "we must/must not do this because consequences will be bad", Republicans say "we'll let you do this regardless of consequences", idiots support Republicans because of short term conveniences.

I think your logic around the word "intelligent" is overly simplistic. Would you say Sweden's logic behind their limited lockdown was not backed by "intellect"?

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#843

Post by lazyasciiart »

fullshark wrote: post #838
lazyasciiart wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure people's behavior will stay changed, but that aside - that presumed "better testing and tracing" is exactly what we are waiting for before opening up. It doesn't exist yet. Reducing restrictions while we still have up to a two week lag on tracking infections means that we won't know if it's going OK.

Things will always be better in terms of testing / tracing / treatment options in a month, in June if we just wait until July things would be in a better place. Ultimately this is going to be about buying time for as long as is politically and economically possible. If more and more states open up and their situation doesn't look like a disaster because they are not as dense as NYC with almost 4 million people taking…

You're arguing as though "better testing/tracing" is an amorphous goal that keeps moving, when people are actually talking about quite specific and quantifiable goals. For instance, in WA:

"The recovery plan begins with widely available testing for individuals who may have contracted COVID-19, tracing for those who have come into close contact with COVID-19 positive individuals, and isolation or quarantine for individuals who could transmit the virus..... For the contact-tracing plan to work, the state needs to be processing between 20,000 and 30,000 tests a day." https://medium.com/@WAStateGov/inslee-announces-washingtons-...

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#844

Post by thelean12 »

in_cahoots wrote: post #789
thelean12 wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced you're arguing in good faith, but I'll dispel the misinformation for others: In the bay area dentists and healthcare professionals are exempt from the order. My dentist is open for emergencies 7am-7pm. If your dentist is closed, you can certainly call and complain, but it's not part of the bay area order. I'm not sure about vaccination schedules because it's hard to google it without talk about a co…

My source for this is my own life. My town (San Mateo county) is still bringing in construction workers to build a playground. My pediatrician and dentist have both closed for non-emergency purposes, as has my physical therapist. And you didn’t even address my point about liquor stores - read the order from San Mateo county and see if you think their rationale makes sense. I’m not sure why you think I’m arguing in ba…

The original thing I was pushing against was your "What is so magical about the word essential?" comment.

I've been showing how, with limited exceptions, it's not just a magic word attached to activities.

I didn't think you were arguing in good faith because you brought up horrible counter examples (gardeners??) and started spewing conspiracy theories that the bay area has some nefarious reason to keep people from being productive other than public safety.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#845

Post by standardUser »

tayo42 wrote: post #841
standardUser wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a thousand gradients between the current lockdown and "open everything up". Almost no one is arguing we should open everything. Hearing this false choice over and over is getting old fast.

Currently workers on beef production are getting sick and factories are closing. Now you can go to parks, beaches, grocery shopping, order food. What do you so deperately need to do? Have a beer in a bar? 80% of americans dont want to have anything start opening again. And when you do force things open again you force workers who dont want to go back to work and feel its unsafe to go back to start working again, ther…

"What do you so deperately need to do? "

What a bizarre thing to ask. As if we need some special justification for wanting the lockdowns to be both effective and as permissive as possible. It would be strange for someone to want restrictions to be more stringent just for the sake of stringency. Efficacy is what matters, and "more strict" does not necessarily equal more effective.

If we knew we could open up school for small children without causing an intolerable spike in the transmission rate, wouldn't we want to do this? Of course we would. That's exactly what's happening in Germany and Denmark right now.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#846

Post by jshevek »

primeradical wrote: post #827
jshevek wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm not expressing my emotions, I'm pointing out the lack of intellectual integrity in the statement.

We'll make it through this man. It's gonna be okay.

Your substance-free comment is a non sequitur.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#847

Post by jshevek »

primeradical wrote: post #824
forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your focus on the virus spread while ignoring the tens of millions of people who have lost their jobs because of this is selfish and egocentric. I do not believe there is room for an alternative viewpoint to that.

I don't understand your statement. Could you clarify?

They are illustrating the problems intrinsic to your justification for your extremist and narrow minded position.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#848

Post by tayo42 »

standardUser wrote: post #845
tayo42 wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently workers on beef production are getting sick and factories are closing. Now you can go to parks, beaches, grocery shopping, order food. What do you so deperately need to do? Have a beer in a bar? 80% of americans dont want to have anything start opening again. And when you do force things open again you force workers who dont want to go back to work and feel its unsafe to go back to start working again, ther…

"What do you so deperately need to do? " What a bizarre thing to ask. As if we need some special justification for wanting the lockdowns to be both effective and as permissive as possible. It would be strange for someone to want restrictions to be more stringent just for the sake of stringency. Efficacy is what matters, and "more strict" does not necessarily equal more effective. If we knew we could open up school fo…

more people live in los angeles then in denmark. how that can be comparable to the us?

transmission is higher indoors, why would you put kids in schools?

do you have a source on german schools for little kids being open? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-german...

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#849

Post by standardUser »

tayo42 wrote: post #848
standardUser wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What do you so deperately need to do? " What a bizarre thing to ask. As if we need some special justification for wanting the lockdowns to be both effective and as permissive as possible. It would be strange for someone to want restrictions to be more stringent just for the sake of stringency. Efficacy is what matters, and "more strict" does not necessarily equal more effective. If we knew we could open up school fo…

more people live in los angeles then in denmark. how that can be comparable to the us? transmission is higher indoors, why would you put kids in schools? do you have a source on german schools for little kids being open? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-german...

The article you linked is well over a month old. You can google this stuff yourself since you clearly are not keeping up with the news.

The restrictions in Denmark and Germany for schoolchildren are elaborate and inventive. We should be working on something similar here. The size of the country is a red herring, as these are local actions overseen by local schools. Of course I would put my kids in schools with these kinds of safeguards. Children need school.

And remember, our goal is not to prevent all transmission of the virus, only to keep the transmission rate low. Some transmission is unavoidable, so we have to be smart, not mindlessly strict.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#850

Post by tayo42 »

standardUser wrote: post #849
tayo42 wrote: post #848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

more people live in los angeles then in denmark. how that can be comparable to the us? transmission is higher indoors, why would you put kids in schools? do you have a source on german schools for little kids being open? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-german...

The article you linked is well over a month old. You can google this stuff yourself since you clearly are not keeping up with the news. The restrictions in Denmark and Germany for schoolchildren are elaborate and inventive. We should be working on something similar here. The size of the country is a red herring, as these are local actions overseen by local schools. Of course I would put my kids in schools with these…

They have had their lockdown going for that long. It's disingenuous to present germany like they had school open the whole time. They only just partially reopened. It hasn't been long enough to say whether its been a good idea yet or not.

California has a plan for reopening. Newsom has shared it, its reasonable

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