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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#831

Post by drcongo »

mc3301 wrote: post #624
yowayb wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once rented a "kei van" in Japan once. I think I remember seeing similarly utilitarian trucks, but forget what they were called. I found the kei vans very practical.

I have one. Four wheel drive, turbo, 660cc little motor. There's even a cute "bashguard" built in to the oil filter, which is hilariously the lowest thing to the ground. No frills. Knobs control everything. I love it. Full-flat back allows for camping in your car (I'm just over 6 feet tall.) Three bicycles and three people can fit. Wood, tools, DIY... And it is tiny, so it is easy to drive and park. It doesn't like d…

On that note, kei car minivans like the Honda N-box are just about the most practical car you can buy for your teen offspring - 4 seats and a ton of boot space.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#832

Post by pixl97 »

alex43578 wrote: post #580
pixl97 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem here is we need a hybrid stage in between. I have a hybrid now, it's still a conventional powertrain, and it's not chargeable. That's not exactly what I want, but it's what I could get. I want a fully electric drive train hybrid with around 100 miles capacity on the battery, then a generator that's big enough to keep it running if the battery is drained. 100 miles gets you through the average day with…

On the flip side, it massively increases your BOM and maintenance considerations, as now you have to have all the bits of an electric powertrain and most of the bits of a gas powertrain. All for the few times that you’re driving more than 300ish miles in a stretch?

Na, far less bits of a gas powertrain. Generators are are a pretty simple setup.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#833

Post by astura »

bluGill wrote: post #241
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pickup truck should just be max utility Except the main demographic buying F150s is suburban dads driving to their office job.

And using the truck on weekends to tow the boat, or do other work with it. Not every weekend, but once a month in summer.

Usually the imagined uses are very aspirational at best. The imagination doesn't fit reality. I've seen it firsthand, many years ago my dad got the fancy pickup because he "needs the utility." Whenever an opportunity presented itself for him to use his truck as a truck though, he'd pay the extra fee for delivery because he didn't wanna bother.

It did make his reckless driving more dangerous for the innocents, though.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#834

Post by sgarland »

potato3732842 wrote: post #813
theshrike79 wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an anecdote that went something like "a 4x4 will just get you stuck worse then a 2wd" =) And, like you said, people think that an AWD car will stop faster. No, it'll just start moving faster, more traction doesn't make the brakes better or the road any less slippery. I owned a single 4WD car and it was super fun in the winter, but... when it's icy, you're most likely moving faster than you would be with a 2…

>And, like you said, people think that an AWD car will stop faster. The only people I know who think this way are made up people who exist only in the minds of people seeking to validate a purchasing decision.

I remembering driving in a near-blizzard in Connecticut one night (got caught out in it; this wasn’t on purpose), and feeling like this explanation was the only one that made sense. I had a Pontiac G6 at the time, which was a fairly boring FWD sedan. Having learned to drive in Nebraska, I was decent at driving in snow, so I tootled along at about 25 MPH. I was being passed by SUVs and trucks, and then felt vindicated from seeing many of them off the road a few miles later.

I would’ve stopped to help, but I was concerned that if I lost momentum, I wouldn’t get going again.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#835

Post by sgarland »

potato3732842 wrote: post #812
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a perceived must. when running "all season" tires year round the AWD inspires more confidence, and most people don't even know winter tires are a thing. Plus 4x4 only helps you start moving, but once you are, every car still only has 2 wheels to turn and 4 to stop, which are quite possibly more crucial in snow....

Snow tires don't really stand on their own merit unless you're constantly encountering the conditions the snow tire people use in the commercials to magnify the difference. The biggest reason to get snow tires is simply that then you can run a "pure" summer tire rather than an all season the rest of the year. The second biggest reason is dry road performance. > AWD inspires more confidence Stop and work backwards and…

> Stupid internet circle jerks about stopping distance are not the pain point or performance bottleneck for the average user.

Uh, it should be? The ability to confidently stop is far more important than to go. If you can’t get going, you’re not in a wreck. If you can’t stop, well…

You also missed another key reason to get snow tires: many (most?) vehicles do not come with AWD even as an option. Telling someone to trade their Civic in for a CR-V just so they can get AWD isn’t sensible, when they could mount snow tires and get a significant traction boost.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#836

Post by potato3732842 »

arcticbull wrote: post #780
themafia wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I promise you with all my heart You have such a deep misanthropic view that it's prevented you from seeing anything outside of it. You're preaching a faith not practicing an understanding of the world. > Nobody is buying a gigantic vehicle There are tons of contractors, laborers, small business and property owners who need the space or the utility of the vehicle. The reason these vehicles sell well is because they…

> According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. > So what do people actually like about trucks? According to Edwards, the ans…

>The F-series is the best selling car family in the US. Some of them are using it for its intended purpose sure, the majority are just using it as parent said, a luxobarge.

A F550 box truck and a crew cab shortbed F150 are both F-series as well as everything in between.

If not the best selling it had better be damn close with all the different vehicles that exist under that one nameplate.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#837

Post by sgarland »

daemonologist wrote: post #685
analog31 wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember my 1982 Toyota Corolla wagon had an obvious cut-out in the plastic interior, that was just a hair wider than a 4x8 sheet. I still miss that car.

Yep, my parents had an old Honda Odyssey (minivan) that exactly fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Comical that some pickups can't quite measure up.

Manufacturers are selling what their market wants. It sucks.

Ironically, the Honda Ridgeline - long lambasted as “not a real truck” - can fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood, at least width-wise. You’ll have to either prop it up on the tailgate, or drop it and strap it down (which honestly you should do either way), but it will fit between the wheels.

I love my Ridgelines; had a Gen1 RTL, and now a Gen2 BE. A neighbor I used to have traded his F-150 for an F-350. The most I ever saw him haul was a very small trailer with some furniture. I’ve had a cubic yard of mulch dumped into mine repeatedly (a Gen1 Ridgeline will hold and haul this, but it’s heaped, and depending on moisture content it’s slightly over max rating, so maybe don’t bring a passenger).

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#838

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

michaelt wrote: post #786
Aurornis wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The internet loves to bash truck owners as all being the same one guy who buys a truck to drive 1.3 miles to the office every day, but the audience of truck buyers is huge and diverse. Acting like nobody who buys a truck actually uses it or thinking that contractors couldn’t possibly appreciate (or deserve?) a nice interior for what is basically their mobile office is pretty out of touch.

> thinking that contractors couldn’t possibly appreciate (or deserve?) a nice interior for what is basically their mobile office is pretty out of touch I'm not familiar with the USA. What do contractors over there do in terms of clean/dirty clothes? Do they change into clean boots and trousers before getting into the truck? Or are they all in roles where they don't get their hands dirty? In my country, vehicles marke…

LOL. I know you're serious, but that's just funny.

Using my wife's fairly recent (2024 model year) pickup truck as an example, every horizontal surface is covered in papers, clipboards, horse tack and medications (she trains horses and operates a horse rescue). The floors and kick panels are probably muddy at this time of year, but I'm so used to it that I don't notice. The surfaces that aren't covered by papers or something else have a nice thick layer of dust (the truck spends a lot of time on gravel roads).

It might actually be vacuumed out a few times a year, but that's far from a priority. Generally, the cleanup only happens if one of us has to wear "nice" clothes to go somewhere.

But bear in mind that the areas that your body touches tend to clean themselves simply because you're moving around. So, the floors, dashboard, etc., might be muddy or dusty but the seats will generally be clean.

The basic "spartan" trucks tend to be for uses where you don't have to travel very far. If you're driving a hundred miles or so on an average day, you'll want to be as comfortable as possible or it gets old really fast.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#839

Post by sotix »

mrexroad wrote: post #485
alexjplant wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bim…

Bingo. Sprinter vans, utility vans, or even minivans are far, far more useful for trades than modern pickups. Heck, my minivan was the goat for home renovations—it’d easily fit a dozen full 4x8 sheets of drywall/osb/ply/mdf/etc and I could still close the rear gate. I always got chuckles from guys awkwardly wrangling/securing sheets onto a pickup’s bed at the supply yard when I’d easily slide the sheets off the cart…

> I’ll take a moment to lament the demise of the light duty pickup that provided a bit of extra utility while still fitting in a normal parking space.

Remind me of my favorite article title: In the land of the free, why can’t we have mini-pickup trucks like the Taliban and ISIS?[0]

[0]: https://www.kansas.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/dion-lefler...

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales

#840

Post by Amezarak »

infecto wrote: post #830
potato3732842 wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fullsize vans don't offer AWD at a reasonable price point. Either AWD/4wd is necessary when you're going to other people's property because you can't guarantee any given property isn't an icy shithole and when you're a professional being paid by them to be there for a specific purpose the last thing you wanna do is slip out trying to do a 25-point turn on their stupid sloped driveway and put a tire in the landscaping…

Maybe we are talking about different things. AWD is a $4k upgrade on a transit. 4wd buys you nothing and at that point it’s more about the tires. Even in cold parts of the US your hvac or plumber is going to be using something like a transit. Very few trade jobs opt for a truck. They don’t make economic sense and impossible to secure anything in the bed. Sure landscaping crews can utilize trucks but even then, your m…

> They don’t make economic sense and impossible to secure anything in the bed.

I've never seen or known a trademan that drove a van. They all drive pickups. Maybe this is a regional thing.

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