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I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

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Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#831

Post by angra_mainyu »

dublinben wrote: post #670
nradov wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to be politically acceptable, a carbon tax should be phased in gradually and coupled with a reduction in income tax so as to make it revenue neutral. That way it can't be framed as just another government tax grab.

Offsetting income tax would be a massive handout to the rich, who have been and continue to be the greatest contributors to carbon emissions. Instead, it should be paired with a dividend which makes it revenue neutral for the median household. Lower income families, who are more impacted by but less responsible for climate change, would be paid a benefit.

> Offsetting income tax would be a massive handout to the rich, who have been and continue to be the greatest contributors to carbon emissions.

I'm not sure how these two ideas make sense in your head. If you implement a carbon tax and the rich are the greatest contributors as you stated, one would expect them to be hit by the carbon tax as well.

In any case, I personally see an income tax as a strange thing to have in the context of a discussion wherein taxing undesirable behavior is seen as a way of disincentivizing it.

At the very minimum free the working class and lower-middle class from income tax.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#832

Post by collyw »

I used to now I don't. After over 3 decades of hearing about it, none of the catastrophic predictions have come true. The sea level hasn't risen by any perceptible amount (I live on the coast). And I see no reason why it's considered a bad thing if it gets slightly warmer.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#833

Post by collyw »

johnea wrote: post #86
declan_roberts wrote: post #16

Weird. I used to worry about climate change and now I don’t. I guess the world has a way of finding its equilibrium. I do however worry about the accidental introduction of invasive species and diseases, which seems to be accelerating (see: citrus greening disease).

> Weird. I used to worry about climate change and now I don’t. That's funny! I was going to start my post with the exact same sentence! But for a totally different reason: I'm now convinced that there is no stopping the massive destruction of the natural environemnt. A much MUCH bigger problem than that of the climate alone. I'm not a "doomer", I'm a "realist". It's clear at this point that the world's ownership clas…

Look up the Cambrian period.It was a lot warmer and life flourished. The idea that it getting warmer is somehow a catastrophe seems quite absurd.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#834

Post by nojvek »

angra_mainyu wrote: post #830
nojvek wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am personally pretty opposed to taxing co2 emissions and playing games with carbon credit. We should not be making energy expensive for the lay person. Provide subsidies to build new solar, wind and nuclear farms - sure. The world will quickly adapt renewable energy if it is much cheaper and convenient to use it. In similar vein, for god sake don’t tax solar panels above usual tax rate. I’m looking at Arizona. The…

Question for anyone reading, why do I see some comments (like this one) greyed out? Never understood it. Is it something like a downvoted comment? I fail to see a downvote button (which I am happy about).

If a comment goes below 0 (total votes), it gets greyed out.

I've found HN pretty divided when it comes topics like energy/climate/electric vehicles, immigration and foreign policy.

Before I used to feel bad, now I somewhat expect to be downvoted bringing up anything that doesn't fit someone's worldview.

I lived a decade in Seattle, WA which is a strong blue/liberal state as it goes. Sometimes pretty extreme. Now I am in Florida which is now a solid red state since Trump. It's interesting to see how the thought bubbles and world views have formed.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#835

Post by brlewis »

garfieldnate wrote: post #813
vegetablepotpie wrote: post #566

You can do something about this. I got involved in climate advocacy in 2021. Since then I’ve successfully lobbied my local government to start an energy resources study, which will look at ways for my community to quickly transition to renewables. A small thing. But if we all do small things, it will add up! Still though. My state, Arizona has really terrible people writing awful laws. This legislative session they’r…

Quick google search of the AZ law says it will tax solar energy exported to other states and divide the proceeds among the local residents, which sounds a bit more nuanced than your summary. Not saying it's positive, but it's not clear to me that it's negative without more details; some form of this could incentivize more of the land to be used for solar, for example. I actually thought that this sort of law would be…

>I actually thought that this sort of law would be disallowed by the fed, since they reserve the right to govern interstate commerce

Yes, the US Constitution gives regulation of interstate commerce to the federal government, but this has been worked around. Lots of states have "use tax" which is an obvious[1] tax on interstate commerce, but they skirt the Constitution by saying they're taxing "use" of the goods purchased within their own state, not the interstate commerce involved. It's possible the AZ law could be written in a way that claims to tax something that happens within the state, while still being for all intents and purposes a tax on interstate commerce. And probably nobody would do anything about it.

[1] The tax is computed 100% based on the money exchanged in interstate commerce, and 0% based on usage.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#836

Post by brlewis »

spaceheater wrote: post #811
vegetablepotpie wrote: post #566

You can do something about this. I got involved in climate advocacy in 2021. Since then I’ve successfully lobbied my local government to start an energy resources study, which will look at ways for my community to quickly transition to renewables. A small thing. But if we all do small things, it will add up! Still though. My state, Arizona has really terrible people writing awful laws. This legislative session they’r…

Didn't like the whole world stop during covid? It should be equivalent to 50-100 years of climate activism, and what? didn't even make a dent?

A significant fraction of commuting by information workers stopped during COVID. Nothing like the whole world stopping, but yes, it would make a difference if the reduction in commuting could continue.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#837

Post by brlewis »

jcfrei wrote: post #743
zug_zug wrote: post #637

Just a contextual note -- one thing Sabine says is: AI won't help because we know the exact solution, we just aren't willing to do it. Presumably she's referring to her first proposal -- a carbon tax. It's my understanding that there's nearly consensus among economists that a carbon tax is the most efficient solution to global warming, but political consensus that it would never happen when framed as a tax. If you do…

A carbon tax will not be politically viable for two simple reasons: 1) Some people who would need to pay can't really afford it: It's people living in old houses or who have to drive very far to work or rely on cheap energy for heating and electricity - It's not gonna affect the software engineer who drives his Tesla to work. 2) Another big chunk of the working population would lose their jobs because their industry…

How about redistributing the CO2 tax as cuts in payroll and income taxes? That would benefit the working population and create a lot of replacement jobs.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#838

Post by brlewis »

dublinben wrote: post #670
nradov wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to be politically acceptable, a carbon tax should be phased in gradually and coupled with a reduction in income tax so as to make it revenue neutral. That way it can't be framed as just another government tax grab.

Offsetting income tax would be a massive handout to the rich, who have been and continue to be the greatest contributors to carbon emissions. Instead, it should be paired with a dividend which makes it revenue neutral for the median household. Lower income families, who are more impacted by but less responsible for climate change, would be paid a benefit.

In the U.S. capital gains and dividends are taxed at a low rate to benefit the rich, and "Income tax" is a working-class thing. Maybe the OP was referring to the U.S. concept of income tax.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#839

Post by whydoineedthis »

zug_zug wrote: post #637

Just a contextual note -- one thing Sabine says is: AI won't help because we know the exact solution, we just aren't willing to do it. Presumably she's referring to her first proposal -- a carbon tax. It's my understanding that there's nearly consensus among economists that a carbon tax is the most efficient solution to global warming, but political consensus that it would never happen when framed as a tax. If you do…

A carbon tax will make the problem worse. To make up for the profit losses from the tax, business will produce and sell more goods - actually increasi g the pollution put in the air.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#840

Post by [deleted] »

dsign wrote: post #628

We need a phase transition in our thinking about climate change, because our current way of thinking is taking us nowhere. - All human activities, in different degrees, contribute to climate change. Don't believe me? Say that you bike to the office everyday. You enjoy your commute, you never develop a heart condition, and in the course of your long prosperous life you have three kids and nine grandchildren, own sever…

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