Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#831

Post by thatcat » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 4:13 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #621

refenestrator wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Held accountable by whom? We didn't elect twitch. Who decides who needs to be held accountable, and for what? Shouldn't that be the justice system? Twitch mentioned proactively banning people who are arrested, without using the word 'convicted'. Which demographics is that likely to affect?

>Held accountable by whom? We didn't elect twitch. Society. Don't like it, pick a new society like the two commenters you responded to you are considering. >Who decides who needs to be held accountable, and for what? Once again, society. >Shouldn't that be the justice system? The justice system is purposely setup in a way to make it difficult to punish people. This is good. We don't want the government throwing peopl…

>Society. Don't like it, pick a new society like the two commenters you responded to you are considering.

Society changes, get over it. These changes are going to ruin platforms and people will dislike it and move to other platforms, yet they will still be in the same society.

>The justice system is purposely setup in a way to make it difficult to punish people. This is good. We don't want the government throwing people in jail with flimsily excuses.

This is literally what happens all day every day in the justice system which is nothing more than a formalized social shunning process that requires fewer people to ruin your life and profit off of it indirectly.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#832

Post by kodah » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 4:16 AM UTC

rsj_hn wrote: post #720

TameAntelope wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's an interesting consequence of accountability, that the people being held accountable tend to vocally dislike being held accountable, but don't want to say so for some reason. It'd honestly be pretty refreshing for a leader to come out and say, "I don't think my actions should be held against me like your actions should be held against you because I'm special/different." Insane, but refreshingly honest. F…

Since when has BLM or antifa been held accountable for anything? BLM alone murdered over 30 policemen and several civilians. They pulled a dead body out of one of the burned out buildings in Minneapolis after the violent left-wing riots there. Antifa murdered 9 in Dayton and injured over 20 others, they stormed multiple government buildings and attacked government officials and police. Who is held accountable for pro…

I'll try to be mature about my response to this too.

Blaming BLM for the acts of individuals is tantamount to blaming the right for the acts of people who organized in private groups on a public platform. Both sides will claim that the other has stoked fear, hate, and division to various degrees in a myriad of ways. I tend to agree with both, but I also realize that the people really responsible are likely at the top of a chain that laypeople can't even perceive.

If we're to undo the damage that Russia has done to this country I think it starts in that understanding. Then and only then do we have armor to fight a nation hell bent on destroying things like ethos.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#833

Post by bopbeepboop » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 4:16 AM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #604

wongarsu wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both "I think gay folks should have equal rights" and "America deserved 9/11" are fundamentally statements about ethics, and neither is calling for violence.

Yes, that's very true. The second statement though, was a blatant call to violence (if white redneck militia dudes...), and the author did not get banned from twitch, instead they were simply limited in their monetization options. But "America deserved 9/11" was an ethical statement, you're right.

No, the second statement isn’t a call to violence.

> "If that means white redneck militia dudes mowing down dipshit protesters that think they can torch buildings at 10 PM, at this point they have my fucking blessing."

This is clearly not a call to violence: it’s an approval of people intervening in serial arson, even if that means using force against the arsonists and lamenting that the state has failed to stop the serial arson, so it may fall to a militia. You can tell that by “if [...], at this point they have my fucking blessing” rather than any call to action.

Approving of militias using force to stop serial arsonists when the state has failed to keep the peace is an ethical statement — and one much tamer than “America deserved 9/11”. Most people believe that people have the right to protect themselves when the state fails to maintain peace.

I suspect you’re being uncharitable because you personally support the arsonists’ crime spree.

What specific violent act do you believe that quote calls for?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#834

Post by geoduck14 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 4:17 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #822

kodah wrote: post #253

I had to type in this box more times than I'm willing to admit to produce something that didn't violate the guidelines. Let's examine why this is problematic: - This will absolutely be leveraged on anyone in a precarious position. It's their ultimate out. Minority groups, majority groups, it doesn't matter - you're in trouble and need a platform to tell your story? Not happening on Twitch. Expect more to sign on to t…

>Private companies now own most of the highways we use for speech, much less widespread speech. The highway is the one thing they do not own. They own exits on the highway. But no one is stopping anyone from sending emails. Or setting up their own website and messaging service. It is easier and cheaper today to to connect with others and express yourself without the need for private companies than it has ever been in…

>But no one is stopping anyone from sending emails. Or setting up their own website and messaging service.

Parler was literally kicked off of AWS and Twillio.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#835

Post by entropea » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 4:20 AM UTC

mlazos wrote: post #746

darepublic wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chaz was worse wasn't it, there were more deaths, it lasted longer and the participants were given very charitable coverage. Violence and lawlessness is ok if you're on the right team basically.

Except if you went to chaz, it was actually fine and the news blatantly exaggerated reality for advertising $$

I remember peacefully eating Subway about 2 blocks away from CHAZ watching bunnies hop around in the grass. I was there for photojournalistic purposes. I had to walk past a Starbucks with broken windows however. Actually being there and experiencing it, media most definitely blew it out of the water for outrage advertising $$. You're very right.

The initial few days of george floyd protests were tense, but almost every large city around the country also was.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#836

Post by darksaints » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 4:21 AM UTC

garbagetime wrote: post #827

darksaints wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried to stop the certification of an election winner using violence and intimidation. That's an insurrection. Your claims here are like saying that the civil war wasn't an insurrection because the confederacy didn't want to overthrow the US government, they just wanted to form a different government.

The word is often taken to denote a violent uprising. The Capital protests weren't particularly violent - the protesters didn't kill anyone (not to mention they were hardly an uprising). >Your claims here are like saying that the civil war wasn't an insurrection because the confederacy didn't want to overthrow the US government, they just wanted to form a different government. There's not that much of a parallel. The…

> The word is often taken to denote a violent uprising. The Capital protests weren't particularly violent - the protesters didn't kill anyone.

False.

> There's not that much of a parallel. The Capital protesters wanted to show resistance to the election being stolen from what they saw as the legitimate winner. The Civil War was, like, a war, and way different in every way.

It wasn't a war at first. The South Carolina Declaration of Secession was created and printed with significantly less violence than the insurrection at the capitol...the first shots fired didn't happen for another 4 months. The fact that only 5 people died in the insurrection doesn't mean that the would-be confederates didn't attempt an insurrection, it just means they didn't succeed, and couldn't muster up enough traction to last a single day.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#837

Post by anchpop » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

_qwfv wrote: post #413

anchpop wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, Destiny describes himself as a "classical liberal", "hardcore capitalist", and "rule utilitarian." It's important to be specific, because the word "liberal" means different things in different contexts, and it is not always the same meaning as "progressive" or "leftist". None of the things you mentioned are incompatible with the group Americans call “liberal”. He also describes himself as a social democrat.…

Thanks for the additional context. > None of the things you mentioned are incompatible with the group Americans call “liberal”. Disagree. In some contexts leftist and liberal are distinct and incompatible things. In American politics, liberal often means 'progressive', but 'classical liberal' is typically associated with libertarianism. That's not to say a classical liberal cannot hold progressive beliefs, but it cer…

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up "leftist", perhaps a parent comment was edited but it looks like you're the only one who has used that term to describe Destiny here and the original characterization of him as an anti-racist liberal is 100% accurate by both the American and polysci usage of the term.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#838

Post by stonogo » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

listless wrote: post #786

darepublic wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chaz was worse wasn't it, there were more deaths, it lasted longer and the participants were given very charitable coverage. Violence and lawlessness is ok if you're on the right team basically.

Or burning down a police precinct. Or literally fire bombing federal buildings for MONTHS with virtually no consequences. And all the while politicians and media egg it on. The duplicity on the violence issue is both stunning and terrifying.

I dunno, I tend to regard property damage and murder to be different things. I have been surprised to see how many people disagree, and I'm still trying to understand that perspective.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#839

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

geoduck14 wrote: post #834

lotsofpulp wrote: post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Private companies now own most of the highways we use for speech, much less widespread speech. The highway is the one thing they do not own. They own exits on the highway. But no one is stopping anyone from sending emails. Or setting up their own website and messaging service. It is easier and cheaper today to to connect with others and express yourself without the need for private companies than it has ever been in…

>But no one is stopping anyone from sending emails. Or setting up their own website and messaging service. Parler was literally kicked off of AWS and Twillio.

Parler was funded by a billionaire. They did not need to depend on someone else's computers (AWS and Twilio). They could have hosted things themselves and reached their audience.

The highway is people typing parler.com in their browser, which was never interrupted. Parler could have made their own exit on the highway instead of telling people to take the exit for Amazon or Twilio.

And in the history of the world, this ability to reach everyone in the world was not possible until a couple decades ago.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#840

Post by imgabe » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 4:26 AM UTC

wslack wrote: post #804

JamesBarney wrote: post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they actually committed any of those crimes you don't need to cancel them because prison doesn't let you stream.

Not if the evidence for such things isn't admissible. (like certain types of recordings)

Hmm, I wonder if the justice system has any reason for why some kinds of evidence aren’t admissible?

Nah, they probably just want to let a few criminals off the hook for funsies.