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Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#831

Post by kevindong »

hannasanarion wrote: post #748
QML wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those billions aren’t uniformly taxed: that’s what they were pointing out.

Actually, those billions wouldn't have been taxed at all. That was part of the deal: Amazon gets all of the income taxes that are paid by their employees in the first ten years.

To be more specific, this part of the deal is called the Excelsior Jobs program. It rebates to Amazon 6.85% [0] of the wages earned by the company's employees, which effectively does mean that income taxes get paid out to Amazon (in reality, the income taxes paid plus a little more due to the NYS tax brackets [1]).

That being said, there's no city-level income tax rebate. Assuming the tax brackets currently in effect hold steady until the full 25k jobs promise was fulfilled, the city of New York would get ~3.8% of $150k * 25k jobs = ~$142.5 million/year once the 25k job mark is reached [2].

[0]: https://esd.ny.gov/excelsior-jobs-program

[1]: Note how the 6.85% bracket only applies to income above $215.4k; income above $1.08 million gets taxed at 8.82%; consequently Amazon will get more rebated than employees paid in income tax the vast majority of the time. See the second table of page 57: https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms/it/it201i.pdf#page=...

[2]: The ~3.8% is approximated based off of page 69 of https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms/it/it201i.pdf#page=...

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#832

Post by honksillet »

lkrubner wrote: post #528
koheripbal wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "tax break" is just a reduction in taxes that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all . It still means a profit for the city. It's not like NYC is paying Amazon to come to NYC. NYC would still make huge tax revenues from additional sales, real estate, income taxes, and corporate taxes. Now they're turning that all away. It's such an irrational decision that if I were Amazon, it would raise a big red flag for me as well.…

This is incorrect: " that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all " The opposite is true, 100% of those taxes will be paid by some other business. Maybe you could make your argument about the New York City of the 1970s, but you sure as heck can not make that argument about the New York City of 2019. New York City is not starving for investment, rather, its biggest challenge nowadays is managing its fast growth. Other busin…

This is absurd. Some other businesses might marginally offset the losses, but only marginally.

That being said, businesses, like people, should have equal protection under the law. I amazon gets a sweetheart deal, every other business should too.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#833

Post by kevindong »

cletus wrote: post #402
quxbar wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what jobs? Are we talking software engineers or warehouse workers? Workers with an average salary of $150,000, I think it's disingenuous to act like you don't know that but you're also an expert in property tax reform.

Pay one person a salary of $1m and you can pay 9 people $55k to average $150k. The average means nothing. Will there some site lead earning $20m/year bringing up the average?

The Virginia agreement actually has a clause to prevent that loophole from being abused to the $20 million/year extent. Jobs that pay more than $850k/year (adjusted upward by 1.5% per year) can only be calculated into the average as being a $850k/year job.

Quoted from page 2 of the Virginia agreement [0]: "If any of the persons holding New Jobs are paid “wages” in any calendar year in excess of $850,000, as escalated 1.5% per year, as shown on Exhibit D, the amount of wages in excess of $850,000, or the higher escalated amount, shall not be included in clause (A)."

[0]: https://d39w7f4ix9f5s9.cloudfront.net/a1/f2/85b7a8db41379e15...

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#834

Post by philwelch »

ceejayoz wrote: post #687
philwelch wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but the bulk of this hyperbolic criticism comes from vegans, and they're going to use terms like "animal cruelty" no matter what livestock welfare standards you set.

Do you dispute that current lifestock welfare standards in the meat/dairy/egg/etc. industries permit what most would agree is animal cruelty if the same things were done to, say, the family dog?

My point is, it would have been clearer and more honest to use the term “factory farming” if you’re talking about factory farming. I don’t know or care much about factory farming itself.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#835

Post by philwelch »

ianleeclark wrote: post #744
philwelch wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, so “animal cruelty” is Newspeak for not being vegan.

I mean, Veganism is the easiest way of avoiding animal cruelty.

Unless you have a cat and refuse to feed it meat. That’s cruel to the cat, in my opinion.

Edit: Cats are obligate carnivores and can't physically remain healthy without eating meat.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#836

Post by mjfl »

samstave wrote: post #756
siruncledrew wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon's spectacle reminds me of Lebron's "The Decision". It's one thing to work out the details and make an announcement, but to purposefully turn it into a show about "What can you do for me?" instead of "Here's what I can do for you" made it not sit well with people. Also, the pull-out letter also basically dumps the blame on state/local officials for not wanting Amazon, despite not all stakeholders being present…

I am announcing an exploratory committee on whether or not I may or may not Apply for YCS19 - I wont tell you if I will apply or not - or how much money my [stealth] startup-unicorn will attempt to raise for an innovative and world-changing product we have yet to decide on seeking a co-founder for. But I am telling you now that I am planning on letting you know, at the end of this quarter - or maybe next month or who…

I think what's notable is that they can do that and people care - Lebron and Amazon are both desirable enough that people cared. You (and I) are not desirable enough that people care.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#837

Post by bradleyjg »

andosteinmetz wrote: post #721
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point of this comment? It combines some smug self-satisfaction about "Your New York" with your ridiculously insulated anecdata about the first month discount many apartments give. A 5 second Google search shows hundreds of results for 1 month free rent in apartment listings. What exactly are you contributing to the discussion?

That's a fair criticism, and I regret my tone and making the discussion personal. But as a life-long New Yorker, I do feel a personal stake in all this. I believe OP is right that the month's free rent offered on an apartment is recouped by the landlord: in the form higher rents, which have become a real problem for many people born and raised in the city and which would likely only be exacerbated by Amazon's setting…

A real New Yorker wowie zowie. Your parents move here? Grandparents? That and a nickel will get you on the subway.New York has always been about the influx. You want people to be impressed with your long bloodlines go to England and be Lord Something Or Other the 19th.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#839

Post by oh_sigh »

cletus wrote: post #402
quxbar wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what jobs? Are we talking software engineers or warehouse workers? Workers with an average salary of $150,000, I think it's disingenuous to act like you don't know that but you're also an expert in property tax reform.

Pay one person a salary of $1m and you can pay 9 people $55k to average $150k. The average means nothing. Will there some site lead earning $20m/year bringing up the average?

From a taxation perspective, that would be even better for the state, because on average a person making $1m/yr + 9 making $55k has a higher marginal tax rate than 10 people making $150k

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#840

Post by ceejayoz »

philwelch wrote: post #834
ceejayoz wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you dispute that current lifestock welfare standards in the meat/dairy/egg/etc. industries permit what most would agree is animal cruelty if the same things were done to, say, the family dog?

My point is, it would have been clearer and more honest to use the term “factory farming” if you’re talking about factory farming. I don’t know or care much about factory farming itself.

That's a bit disingenuous, isn't it? This particular thread of comments started when you reacted to criticism of "cheap factory-farmed meat".
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