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Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

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Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#821

Post by jameshilliard »

dragonwriter wrote: post #810
jameshilliard wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That there were wars going on at the time does not make it any less of a genocide. If some act is in pursuit of a legitimate war goal then that typically negates it being considered an act of genocide from my understanding of international law.

> If some act is in pursuit of a legitimate war goal then that typically negates it being considered an act of genocide from my understanding of international law. Even if there was a dual-intent exception for acts that would be within the laws of war if done without genocidal intent (which there is not), it wouldn't apply to all the acts that are war crimes or crimes against humanity even aside from genocidal intent…

> acts that are war crimes or crimes against humanity

AFAIU per international law either war crimes or crimes against humanity do not by themselves mean there is a genocide. Almost all wars will see these crimes in isolated instances at a minimum, but that doesn't translate to genocide without the dolus specialis(special intent) factor as a deliberate policy(i.e. Nazi's implementing the Holocaust as policy).

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#823

Post by [deleted] »

starik36 wrote: post #816
ebbi wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These trite replies also worked 20 years ago, but not today. People that have read history know your assertion - vaguely suggesting it was the Palestinians that rejected many peace deals - know that this is completely false. Please do tell why an Israeli Prime Minister was assassinated?

> vaguely suggesting it was the Palestinians that rejected many peace deal I am not vaguely suggesting it. I am firmly suggesting it. This is not false, it's completely true. 1936 Peel Commission. 1947 UN Partition. Post 1967 countless attempts to do land for peace deals. 1999 Camp David attempts, 2000 Taba. 2008 negotiations between Abbas and Olmert. If not a 2 state solution, what exactly are you advocating?

[deleted]

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#824

Post by bamboozled »

buellerbueller wrote: post #776
bamboozled wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Could you just be Israel's useful idiot?

I don't see how asking people to actually apply their outrage equally is being a useful idiot...

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#825

Post by dude6402 »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #805
jameshilliard wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we typically don't call oppressed peoples "extremists". Many groups are oppressed to various degrees for various reasons but restoring to terrorism(especially against civilians) is arguably an extremist response. The two are not mutually exclusive. > For example, I wouldn't call those who rebelled in the Warsaw Ghetto "extremists". They were being exterminated. I don't recall there being much terrorism targetin…

Think we're done here. I don't see a cohesive theme that deserves a response in between your responses to very specific pieces of my argument rooted in deflection and whataboutism. I feel I've expressed my viewpoint sufficiently. I don't feel like debating the definition of "terrorism", "extremist views", "race", "South Africa", etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

Thank you for holding your ground here. As frustrating as it can be to wade into these threads, pushing back brings some much-needed sanity to a conversation that otherwise gets drowned out by propaganda (or at least the one i'm used to as consumer of regular western media). Beyond the main points, this exchange is a useful case study in Hasbara and bad-faith debate tactics. (whataboutism, shifting goalposts, and semantic traps designed to derail the discussion; demanding an immediate, comprehensive policy solution just to validate a basic moral critique is a funny double standard given that the Israelis themselves offer no peaceful policy solution or path toward equal rights)

Kudos for calling out these rhetorical games in the open

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#826

Post by judah »

colordrops wrote: post #801
judah wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jews have had a continuous presence in Israel for 3,500 years. Many more returned home after the Holocaust and rebuilt cities, created new ones like Tel Aviv, turned sand into productive land.

You are either extremely ignorant or a cynical sociopath only out to serve your own interests. You spout old stereotypical hasbara that no one falls for anymore because the genocide has led everyone to be educated on the history of the region.

History. Jews have lived in Israel for 3,500 years. They were forced out numerous times by numerous conquerors -- including the Islamic conquest of the 8th century -- but each time, Jews returned.

And there is no genocide taking place, just a war Hamas started and lost. The Gazan population has already rebounded since Hamas started the war in 2023. For comparison with a real genocide, the global Jewish population today has still not rebounded to pre-1939 levels[0].

[0]: https://factually.co/fact-checks/history/jewish-population-b...

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#827

Post by dragonwriter »

jameshilliard wrote: post #821
dragonwriter wrote: post #810

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If some act is in pursuit of a legitimate war goal then that typically negates it being considered an act of genocide from my understanding of international law. Even if there was a dual-intent exception for acts that would be within the laws of war if done without genocidal intent (which there is not), it wouldn't apply to all the acts that are war crimes or crimes against humanity even aside from genocidal intent…

> acts that are war crimes or crimes against humanity AFAIU per international law either war crimes or crimes against humanity do not by themselves mean there is a genocide. Almost all wars will see these crimes in isolated instances at a minimum, but that doesn't translate to genocide without the dolus specialis(special intent) factor as a deliberate policy(i.e. Nazi's implementing the Holocaust as policy).

> AFAIU per international law either war crimes or crimes against humanity do not by themselves mean there is a genocide

Correct, and I didn't say that they did.

I said that even if enumerated acts of genocide in the convention, committed with genocidal intent, were excluded as being genocide by some “dual intent” rule—which I can find no evidence of ever existing or being theorized by any serious authority on international law—if they were in the context of war and would be legitimate acts of war when done without genocidal intent, that still wouldn’t stop all the acts Israel has done with genocidal intent, even if during war, that include acts enumerated as genocidal acts in the Convention and which are, even aside from genocidal intent, war crimes or crimes against humanity and, therefore, not legitimate acts of war even before considering whether they constitute genocide, from satisfying the defintion of genocide in the Convention.

You are basically arguing that you can never have genocide during a war because otherwise legitimate acts of war, committed with genocidal intent, don’t count even if they are enumerated genocidal acts in the convention, and war crimes and crimes against humanity done with genocidal intent that are or include enumerated genocidal acts also don’t count as genocide when committed during war because “all wars will see these crimes”.

But aside from the fact that no basis for the claim that either of these exceptions actually exists in international law has been offered, this ignores that the specific genocides that motivated the convention were committed during wars; its bizarre to argue that the Convention should be read to sub silentio exclude all enumerated genocidal acts perpetrated with the described genocidal intent that happen to occur during war from the scope of the prohibition on genocide.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#828

Post by bamboozled »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #685
throw7832577 wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your own hyperbolic rant exaggerating Israel’s crimes, and justifying believing in additional imaginary crimes based on that, for all Israelis (and Jews, per your referenced quote), just proves OP’s point. Some examples: > Escalation of conflicts into wars with any neighbor country, that isn't on a tree by the count of 3. Israel has had peace with Egypt and Jordan for decades (2 of its 4 neighbors with the largest bo…

Yeah, right ... green behind the ears account tries to defend Israeli crimes, haha. Why don't you comment with your real? And seriously, such an obvious and thinly veiled attempt ... Just in case you are really that uninformed, you should look into Israeli (Mossad) assessinations on foreign soils. They are eliminating political opponents, scientists and journalists all the time. They are the nation that killed the mo…

you should look into Israeli (Mossad) assessinations on foreign soils.

Why don't you look into the many other regimes who assassinate people on foreign soils, do you feel outraged about it?

I don't think people are arguing any of this is bad. They are arguing that people seem to get very upset about "Israel" doing the same thing other countries do, and for me, that seems very manufactured.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#829

Post by gosub100 »

jameshilliard wrote: post #749
gosub100 wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take one look at Gaza on Google satellite view and it's clear what's going on.

Hamas built a tunnel network under most of Gaza, obviously since Israel wants to destroy that tunnel network(which is clearly a legitimate war goal) there will be severe infrastructure damage to the buildings above the tunnels. Destroying the military infrastructure of Hamas is obviously not genocide, that is something one would expect to happen during a war.

I don't care what they built. If you want to fight them, man up and go get them! US forces did this in Iraq. Let's see gods chosen people be so brave.

Re: Israel creates fake think tank in likely attempt to dupe AI chatbots

#830

Post by bamboozled »

LeBit wrote: post #450
bamboozled wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of selective outrage directed at Jews, Israel and "Zionists" is proof to me that the fake information campaigns are super duper effective and I'd say dangerously effective. I have friends who are generally psychotically outraged with Israelis and some how just pretend all Israelis are scum / should be "disposed of" or something, and they should "go back to Europe". I see almost zero concern for people of S…

I think what pisses people off about Israel and the Zionist movement is the mixture of entitlement and monstrosity.

That's right people are "pissed off" and not pissed off in the same way about other conflicts. How weird?
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