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Fraud, so much fraud

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Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#821

Post by jeffybefffy519 »

vasco wrote: post #41
neom wrote: post #11

I'm the furthest thing from a scientist unless you count 3,000 hours of PBS spacetime, but I love science and so science/academia fraud to me, feels kinda like the worst kinda fraud you can commit. Financial fraud can cause suicides and ruin in lives, sure, but I feel like academic fraud just sets the whole of humanity back? I also feel that through my life I've (maybe wrongly) placed a great deal of respect and trus…

Pick up an old engineering book at some point, something from mid 1800's or early 1900's and you'll quickly realize that the trust people put on science isn't what it should be. The scientific method works over a long period of time, but to blindly trust a peer review study that just came out, any study, is almost as much faith as religion, specially if you're not a high level researcher in the same field and have sp…

This proves southpark was right, science is just another form of religion.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#822

Post by allpratik »

As a funders to almost of these research studies, we also need to introduce some mechanisms which will impart a compounding fear in minds of these criminals as year passes.

Basically a wrong study results over the years may ended up affecting millions (if not billions) of people. Someone(at every level of the chain) should pay a compounding punishment for a verified fraud.

At the same time, this shouldn't prevent a Nobel upcoming scientist being bold. After all, science is all about pushing the boundaries of understanding or doing.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#824

Post by ksenzee »

pmarreck wrote: post #816
ksenzee wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure there are any rational arguments for Christianity. I say that as a practicing Christian. Either it meets a spiritual need in you, or it’s not very valuable. I imagine that belief in a God who punishes evildoers has kept some people honest throughout history, but the value of that is surely outweighed by the evil done in the name of that God. I also don’t believe Christian societies are more honest than o…

I unfortunately cannot track down the prior research that I did on this in the time I have available as a new father but I am as skeptical as they come and I seemed to have found some solid data suggesting that nations with Christian values are simply broadly more honest and trustworthy. This includes countries such as Iceland because even though it is technically atheist, there's inertia there still from the influen…

Congratulations! I hope you're getting some sleep. If you do ever happen across that data I'd be interested.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#825

Post by telotortium »

mike_hearn wrote: post #386
daedrdev wrote: post #28

Is there no liability for the author? There are billions of dollars wasted in drug trials and research that can be tied to this fraud. Surely they can face some legal issues due to this?

The US has the Office for Research Integrity which can prosecute scientific fraud cases, but it only does a handful of cases per year. To put the scale of this problem in perspective, the ORI was set up in the 1970s after Congress became concerned at widespread reports of scientific fraud. It clearly didn't work, but hangs around regardless. It's ultimately a culture problem. Until academics have the same level of re…

It would improve things a lot if the Office of Research Integrity had the same clout as the SEC.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#826

Post by xnx »

neom wrote: post #11

I'm the furthest thing from a scientist unless you count 3,000 hours of PBS spacetime, but I love science and so science/academia fraud to me, feels kinda like the worst kinda fraud you can commit. Financial fraud can cause suicides and ruin in lives, sure, but I feel like academic fraud just sets the whole of humanity back? I also feel that through my life I've (maybe wrongly) placed a great deal of respect and trus…

Science is the search for truth. Lying is anthemic to that.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#827

Post by pmarreck »

Lionga wrote: post #130
pmarreck wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sole rational argument for Christianity is that it has made the societies that it is, or was, infused with, more honest than the ones that were not.

We should really do some more honest crusades to export our honest values to the non believers to make the world a better, more honest place.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41684157

also the crusades were in significant part a competitive reaction to Islamic "proselytization via violence" so you're placing the blame on the wrong religion, there

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#828

Post by hyperG »

vasco wrote: post #41
neom wrote: post #11

I'm the furthest thing from a scientist unless you count 3,000 hours of PBS spacetime, but I love science and so science/academia fraud to me, feels kinda like the worst kinda fraud you can commit. Financial fraud can cause suicides and ruin in lives, sure, but I feel like academic fraud just sets the whole of humanity back? I also feel that through my life I've (maybe wrongly) placed a great deal of respect and trus…

Pick up an old engineering book at some point, something from mid 1800's or early 1900's and you'll quickly realize that the trust people put on science isn't what it should be. The scientific method works over a long period of time, but to blindly trust a peer review study that just came out, any study, is almost as much faith as religion, specially if you're not a high level researcher in the same field and have sp…

The default state of the human brain almost seems to be a form of anti-science, blind faith in what you already believe, especially if you stand to gain personally from what you believe being true.

What is most incredible to me is even knowing and believing the above, I fall prey to this all the time.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#829

Post by zestyping »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #729
physPop wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would just like to point out the irony of claiming that people live in a way inconsistent with scientific rigour, based solely on personal experience.

I think you’re suggesting that I’m making a conclusion without sufficient evidence - hence the “irony” Recall I’m discussing how people live, namely that they don’t live based on their own claims as to how to live. You’d have to evaluate my behaviors to derive if my claim is ironic. However I’m Happy to provide that epistemological chain if requested

I would like to hear more about why you are confident the number is so low as to be effectively zero. What is your confidence interval, and what reasons do you have for your estimate and level of certainty?

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#830

Post by moduspol »

lanstin wrote: post #820
moduspol wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We weren't told it was the best guess to save lives. We were told it was the science, and this science was very fast to adapt to alarmist narratives while being incredibly slow (sometimes taking years) to adapt to reality. And that's before you take into account things like BLM rallies being encouraged during COVID while less politically correct gatherings were banned or decried as "super spreader events." [1] [1] ht…

Public health also studies the most effective communication strategies for sharing public health info even in the face of uncertainty. I bet they will be more explicit about uncertainty next time based on the last time, but that is why they didn't say it. The field started out with a person breaking the handle to an invented ell, not even using communications but taking physical actions to stop the spread. As far as…

> I bet they will be more explicit about uncertainty next time based on the last time

This is highly euphemistic. We were explicitly lied to for our own good, over and over again. Including about masks being ineffective early on (to save them for healthcare providers), about ventilators, about the effectiveness of the vaccine, about the vulnerability of normal populations as compared to older ones, the plausible origins of the virus itself, etc. It was over and over again. And again--that's without the injection of left-wing politics as noted in my previous comment.

> As far as the speed of revisions

We had kids out of schools for years. An entire generation is now significantly behind comparable cohorts, and the only reason we even stopped is because the opposition eventually made it untenable. We forced many small businesses to fail and gave out interest-free loans to many others that never need to be paid back. People were forced to get vaccinated or lose their jobs.

I feel like our response to COVID-19 (at least in the US) is like a litmus test for how well one accepts authoritarianism. If one lived through that as an adult, I don't know how one would trust what the medical establishment says next time around, except to trust that it's what they want the unwashed masses to think.

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