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Fraud, so much fraud

science.org

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Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#21

Post by brink »

themanmaran wrote: post #13

For all the complaints about AI generated content showing up in scientific journals, I'm exited for the flip side, where an LLM can review massive quantities of scientific publications for inaccuracies/fraud. Ex: Finding when the exact same image appears in multiple publications, but with different captions/conclusions. The evidence in this case came from one individual willing to volunteer hundreds of hours producin…

> For all the complaints about AI generated content showing up in scientific journals, I'm exited for the flip side, where an LLM can review massive quantities of scientific publications for inaccuracies/fraud.

How would this work? AI can't even detect AI generated content reliably.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#22

Post by slashdave »

CarpaDorada wrote: post #16

If you are familiar with academia you'll realize the academic dishonesty policy is essentially the playbook by which academics behave. The author is surprised that Eliezer Masliah purportedly had instances of fraud spanning 25 years. I bet the author would be even more surprised to find out that most academics are like that for the entire duration of their career. My favorite instance is Shing-Tung Yau, who is still…

You've given two examples. Please explain why you can extrapolate to all of academia.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#24

Post by madmask »

neom wrote: post #11

I'm the furthest thing from a scientist unless you count 3,000 hours of PBS spacetime, but I love science and so science/academia fraud to me, feels kinda like the worst kinda fraud you can commit. Financial fraud can cause suicides and ruin in lives, sure, but I feel like academic fraud just sets the whole of humanity back? I also feel that through my life I've (maybe wrongly) placed a great deal of respect and trus…

I agree with you, science fraud is terrible. It pollutes and breaks the scientific method. Enormous resources are wasted, not just by the fraudster but also by all the other well meaning scientists who base their work on that.

In my experience no, most fraudsters are not evil people, they just follow the incentives and almost non-existent disincentives. Scientist has become just a job, you find all kinds of people there.

As far as I know no-one goes to jail, worst thing possible (and very rare) is losing the job, most likely just the reputation.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#25

Post by dghlsakjg »

neom wrote: post #11

I'm the furthest thing from a scientist unless you count 3,000 hours of PBS spacetime, but I love science and so science/academia fraud to me, feels kinda like the worst kinda fraud you can commit. Financial fraud can cause suicides and ruin in lives, sure, but I feel like academic fraud just sets the whole of humanity back? I also feel that through my life I've (maybe wrongly) placed a great deal of respect and trus…

It is the same flavor of fraud as financial fraud. It is about personal gain, and avoiding loss.

This kind of fraud happens because scientists are rewarded greatly for coming up with new, publishable, interesting results. They are punished severely for failing to do that.

You could be the department's best professor in terms of teaching, but if you aren't publishing, your job is at risk at many universities.

Scientists in Academia are incentivized to publish papers. If they can take shortcuts, and get away with it, they will. That's the whole problem, that's human nature.

This is why you don't nearly as many industry scientists coming out with fraudulent papers. If Shell's scientists publish a paper, they aren't rewarded for that, if they come up with some efficient new way to refine oil they are rewarded, and they also might publish a paper if they feel like it.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#27

Post by mistercheph »

If there's this much overt, deliberate fraud and dishonesty in all of our research institutions, the quantities of soft lying and fudging are inconceivable.

We need to seriously rethink our approaching to stewarding these institutions and ideas, public trust is rightfully plummeting.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#28

Post by daedrdev »

Is there no liability for the author? There are billions of dollars wasted in drug trials and research that can be tied to this fraud. Surely they can face some legal issues due to this?

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#29

Post by AlbertCory »

Once, at 3Com, Bob Metcalfe introduced a talk by one of his MIT professors with the little joke, "The reason academic politics is so vicious is that nothing's at stake."

The guy said, "That depends on whether you consider reputation 'nothing.' "

I guess what that shows is, you can always negotiate and compromise over money, but reputation is more of a binary. An academic can fake some work, and as long as he's never called on it, his reputation is set.

So yeah, a little more fear of having one's reputation ruined would go a long way towards fixing science.

Re: Fraud, so much fraud

#30

Post by devwastaken »

Universities became tax funded and the consequences is warm bodies filling chairs. I have experience with a number of big name unis in the U.S. they are all about office and national politics. It's not about the work and hasn't been for a while now.

Defund universities. No more student loans, make them have to earn their place in the market or we will continue to suffer under the manipulated system that is actually killing students.

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