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YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

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Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#821

Curious if anyone with legal expertise knows if this has legs? They say: > The clear purpose of this source code is to (i) circumvent the technological protection measures used by authorized streaming services such as YouTube, and (ii) reproduce and distribute music videos and sound recordings owned by our member companies without authorization for such use. But the "circumventing" is still accessing a stream the use…

> a stream the user can view anyways

The true purpose of the DCMA is to control the distributors via the use of tools like DRM.

The fact that you can view music on YouTube at all is something of an anomaly. The recording industry would love to dispense with YouTube entirely if they could.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#822

It is a bit of a tough question. How would I feel about someone borrowing a book from a library and then photocopying it to keep a local copy? If the intent was to re-distribute then I would not feel comfortable allowing it. However, if the proposed remedy was to ban personal ownership of photocopiers I would not even consider that a valid approach. But would I expect I could keep my own photocopied version instead o…

Tangential note: In India, it's legal to copy books for personal purpose, but not to copy it for profit.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#823
post #139

While its good to get a backup of the source code, youtube-dl is one of those projects that quickly becomes useless as Google mixes stuff around within YouTube, which they like to do. Without an active developer base, the project will quickly become less and less effective, which is one of the big concerns IMO about this lawsuit.

What if collaboration on opensource projects (i.e. hosting, issues and their comments) was decentralized instead of relying on a central entity like Github? That would keep the developer base active and make DMCA takedowns ineffective.

> What if collaboration on opensource projects (i.e. hosting, issues and their comments) was decentralized instead of relying on a central entity like Github? That would keep the developer base active and make DMCA takedowns ineffective.

But decentralisation would also make it harder to verify the code is legitimate.

Would you trust a copy of something like this from an anonymous server?

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#824

Your weekly reminder that 1. You should not have your development process on a centralized platform, at least not if you're doing anything that smells of copyright issues 2. If you do host on a centralized platform, have regular, decentralized backups of code and issue tracking. 3. Also, avoid US-centric hosting for this kind of thing. But really, refer to 1.

I'm a contributor to gallery-dl and it occurs to me this exact same scenario can happen there. So I at least set up a cron job to backup the issues in case it gets trolled. Its the only really problematic part to get taken down from Github.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#825
post #168

Is there any legislative or regulatory work that is trying to address the gigantic mess that is music (or media in general) copyright and licensing in the US? The DMCA is over 2 decades old, and seemingly nothing useful has come up since. The current system seems to do not much other than provide a big stick for the RIAA and MPAA to wield whenever they get bored and try to extract rent using law that still seems stuc…

The point of the DMCA and US copyright is not to be reasonable, just, fair, or whatever. It exists to make large corporations money via regulatory capture.

There is no reform because reforming or fixing it is antithetical to the current intent - nigh unlimited power for a fortune 500 companies mob of lawyers (or affiliate) to take down and sue with impunity.

The moneyed interests here have a trillion dollar industry on the line. The people just have... freedom? and sanity? to gain in return. And those are nebulous, unfocused interests. If the collective citizenry cannot unanimously push for police to not crush windpipes on the street anymore its never going to voice disdain for a thousand page book of artificial made up scarcity built up over hundreds of years.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#826
post #464

Worth noting the MPA already tried doing this to Popcorn Time, a BitTorrent client designed to provide a Netflix-like UX.[1] The Popcorn Time devs put in a counter-notice and the repository was back up a few weeks later when the period for the MPA to respond expired. The same thing will probably happen here because this is not one of the purposes of DMCA takedown letters, period. Even if there are inappropriate test…

They probably can't go after Github because part of the purpose of DMCA takedowns is that companies which honor takedowns avoid liability for copyright infringement.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#827
post #139

While its good to get a backup of the source code, youtube-dl is one of those projects that quickly becomes useless as Google mixes stuff around within YouTube, which they like to do. Without an active developer base, the project will quickly become less and less effective, which is one of the big concerns IMO about this lawsuit.

Youtube is far from the only thing ytdl is useful for. I have a particular hate for youtube and basically don't go there, but still make plenty of use of youtube-dl.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#828

Curious if anyone with legal expertise knows if this has legs? They say: > The clear purpose of this source code is to (i) circumvent the technological protection measures used by authorized streaming services such as YouTube, and (ii) reproduce and distribute music videos and sound recordings owned by our member companies without authorization for such use. But the "circumventing" is still accessing a stream the use…

Also, does the fact that YouTube doesn't supply a download feature constitute a "technical protection measure"? From the RIAA's point of view, it works to their benefit that a download link doesn't exist, and it may be something they like, but that doesn't mean that's why. It could just as easily be that a download feature doesn't exist because YouTube wants you to keep returning to their site if you want to rewatch…

> Also, does the fact that YouTube doesn't supply a download feature constitute a "technical protection measure"?

The law is so vague on this point so as to include practically anything. Here is the text:

> a technological measure “effectively controls access to a work” if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should it stand up to legal scrutiny though? What does it matter if I play the beatles on youtube by watching in a web browser or watching an .mp4 file that I just downloaded? It's functionally the same.

The intent matters. Browsers don't make it easy to get ahold of a copy of the file that you can share, youtube-dl does. Add that to a bad README and that's something that a court might treat very differently from a web browser. This is not far off from how it's legal to carry lockpicks but it's often not legal to carry lockpicks around with the intention of using them to commit a crime. Either way you're carrying the…

> The intent matters. Browsers don't make it easy to get ahold of a copy of the file that you can share, youtube-dl does. Add that to a bad README and that's something that a court might treat very differently from a web browser.

I can't say for YouTube specifically (I haven't tried, I suspect they have the talent to make it actually difficult), but browsers do make it remarkably easy to extract most forms of media from a website. Even websites that attempt to hide it have to embed it somewhere. Whether you feel like it's easier to install Firefox and figure out how to extract the media, or figure out how to install Python and pip and then run youtube-dl is up to you.

There are likely even tutorials up by Mozilla somewhere about how to use the dev tools to pull an image (though I assume they're not stupid enough to do it on material they don't have rights to).

There are many reasons one might want to use youtube-dl. Furthermore, there are many creators that either don't care or are happy that you're downloading their stuff.

If we want to make analogies, every gun shop in America sells guns and human shaped targets. Do they have the intent to encourage people to murder other people? It is a tool that can be used for illegal purposes. They might even have examples of how you can do such a thing (as do gun manufacturers, lockpick manufacturers, security exploit announcements, etc, etc). Why would that make the tool illegal? The argument might hold if the only possible use of it is illegal; that puts it among the ranks of things we deem illegal to merely possess, like fully automatic weapons. I'm not buying the RIAA's argument that youtube-dl is so dangerous to society that we can't trust anyone to use it legally.

> This is not far off from how it's legal to carry lockpicks but it's often not legal to carry lockpicks around with the intention of using them to commit a crime.

No one has demonstrated intent. The publishers have demonstrated that it could potentially be used in an illegal manner (depending on your jurisdiction). They aren't going after someone who downloaded youtube-dl and is trying to use it to pirate things. They're going after the lockpick manufacturer because they have a tutorial on using their lockpicks on their site, and people could use that to commit crimes.

Re: YouTube-dl has received a DMCA takedown from RIAA

#830
post #827
post #139

While its good to get a backup of the source code, youtube-dl is one of those projects that quickly becomes useless as Google mixes stuff around within YouTube, which they like to do. Without an active developer base, the project will quickly become less and less effective, which is one of the big concerns IMO about this lawsuit.

Youtube is far from the only thing ytdl is useful for. I have a particular hate for youtube and basically don't go there, but still make plenty of use of youtube-dl.

Where do you use it? I didn't realize it works on other video websites as well...
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