Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#821

Post by gwd » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 9:16 AM UTC

boudin wrote: post #819

mattmanser wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

The mayo comparison doesn't hold. People go to multiple shop. Apple only allows one shop. It's definitely the first step of a fight. It's hard to know what the end game is for Epic, but there's several possibilities I can think of: - moving towards gettibg their own app store, they did this move on computers already. Apple and google start to get under scrutiny for their monoply. - being on one platforn using their g…

> The mayo comparison doesn't hold. People go to multiple shop. Apple only allows one shop.

It would hold up if you said Costco or Sam's Club instead of Walmart. People who pay for a Sam's Club membership do a large amount of their shopping at Sam's Club. Sure they could go to other stores, but that's significantly limited.

Also, people can play Fortnite on their laptop or their Android tablet.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#822

Post by mcdevilkiller » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 9:18 AM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #690

_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

Interesting how every big dog is attacking Apple as they continue to be the lone-wolf in enabling privacy and a secure platform for their users. Apple users are mostly computer illiterate because its Apple’s mission statement to enable computing for everyone. Because of their ease of use, they are now targeted to open up their platform in ways that will jeopardize both their increasing user-privacy and user-security.

Non-Apple users are also mostly computer illiterate, though.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#823

Post by gwd » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 9:18 AM UTC

SkyPuncher wrote: post #686

mattmanser wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

> If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? 1. Stripe is a minor player overall. Lots of other credit card processors 2. Stripe is not preventing you from collecting payments from your customers. You can use a different payment processors.

> You can use a different payment processors.

And you can use a different device to play Fortnite; for instance, a laptop/desktop or an Android tablet w/ sideloading capabilities.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#824

Post by isatty » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 9:18 AM UTC

gandutraveler wrote: post #812

Maybe a naive question but why doesn't Apple take 30% commission on my Robinhood trades. And how is that exchange of money for stock, digital currency different from apps like Fortnite

I don’t use Robinhood but I doubt you’re funding your account through the app? Shouldn’t it be a bank transfer/CC through their website?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#825

Post by rapht » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 9:19 AM UTC

I have yet to find a compelling anti trust argument.

- if anti-trust is about consumer protection (kind of a European perspective), there's no basis. You buy an Apple device knowing full well that the only apps allowed on that device are vetted by Apple. That's hardly new. The rules have not changed. Few exceptions have been made, and I bet those few have been framed by the best lawyers there are to avoid any possible contamination. So there's no new event or situation that has consumers losing.

- if anti-trust is about protecting against market manipulation : no one forces any one to be on the App Store. The rules have not changed. Few exceptions etc. Apple does have sole control of the iPhone apps "market" but is that truly a market in the sense of competition law? The fact that it's called "App Store" should not obscure the fact that Apple could as well have decided to provide only their own Apple-branded apps, and develop themselves all of the apps they make available to iPhone users. Instead they chose to let third-parties provide apps under a restrictive set of conditions that include the "tax". Would it be any different if they actually licensed the apps from developers for a fee and resell them on the App Store to end users?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#826

Post by antishill » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 9:20 AM UTC

_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

Disagree. Epic's battle against Apple seems to based on ulterior motives. They agreed to the App Store terms of service after all. If Epic were to win it would set a terrible precedent whereby contractually requiring payment is unenforceable.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#827

Post by floatboth » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 9:20 AM UTC

neurostimulant wrote: post #451

sillysaurusx wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide any info showing that Apple was definitely going to block all unreal engine powered iOS apps from the App Store? Ideally definitive evidence.

Well, how could Epic continue developing unreal engine for iOS without a developer account?

Why would they need their own account to just develop the engine? They could use any employee's personal account, or a third party partner company's account, anything

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#828

Post by floatboth » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 9:26 AM UTC

jpollock wrote: post #509

hu3 wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might now buy Android devices instead. It goes both ways.

Which would be a huge indication that Fortnite is a key feature. However, it seems bubble colour is important. "Why'd You Push That Button - Why do iPhone users judge people with green text bubbles?" https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/15/18624681/apple-imessage-a...

That must be a US-only thing. In the rest of the world everyone uses WhatsApp/Telegram/Viber/etc (WeChat in China) and iMessage is not popular at all.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#829

Post by 6510 » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 9:31 AM UTC

In the end, in a normal world, the judge should decide what is good for the people and doesn't kill the company. A giant fine for monopolistic behaviour should be the only sensible outcome. But this is the US so the general "fuck the little guy" policy should apply. Epic games will be forced to pay apple 30% + extras for lost revenue. The account will not be restored and the customer shall be ordered to cheer the victory of their favorite brand.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#830

Post by adonese » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 9:35 AM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #504

_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

>Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments.

Users have always been (and still are) subject to all kind of fraudulent. It is about the freedom to do whatever you want with your computing device. The idea that Apple has an absolute control of what goes in into their mobile devices, and that they can claim whatever policies they see fit scares me.

Neither apple nor anyone should have this control.