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The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

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Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#821

Post by jacquesm »

cpncrunch wrote: post #381
jacquesm wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That (1) driving is a pre-cursor to contact with others and (2) driving requires contact with others (gassing up, toll booths, parking attendants, snacks, LE and so on) and (3) driving could lead to accidents which might in turn lead to you ending up in the ER or requiring ambulance transport.

Walking or driving can be a precursor to contact, but as mentioned in my previous comment, if you live in a large city it is difficult to physically distance yourself when walking outside. You are probably better driving to a more remote location for exercise. Generally there is sufficient distance from other people when gassing up, so that seems like a very low risk for a short period of time, compared to walking in…

You can exercise just fine in an apartment.

If you think a pandemic is the time to start major DIY projects then you really don't get it. You're not alone in that, but that doesn't make it smart or right.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#822

Post by cultofmetatron »

markdown wrote: post #770
sdoering wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It just isn't following the "whataboutism" logic. Following this we could say: As there are always young able people in need, why care for old or disabled people who doo not contribute to society and only cost society's money? Why "donate" taxes for care facilities and such unnecessary stuff?

You're taking this too far. Stop trying to do that. There is an island on which there are hungry people and hungry dogs. There is a limited pool of donor funds. The fact that there are people asking for money for the dogs before all the people on that little island have full bellies is just sad. The dogs will feel no pain from being put to sleep. Nobody can, will, or wants to even suggest that the children be put to…

I may get downvoted for this and I would not advocate this under normal circumstances. But dogs are a source of protein that would be a shame to put to waste given that people are starving otherwise.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#823

Post by DuskStar »

markdown wrote: post #770
sdoering wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It just isn't following the "whataboutism" logic. Following this we could say: As there are always young able people in need, why care for old or disabled people who doo not contribute to society and only cost society's money? Why "donate" taxes for care facilities and such unnecessary stuff?

You're taking this too far. Stop trying to do that. There is an island on which there are hungry people and hungry dogs. There is a limited pool of donor funds. The fact that there are people asking for money for the dogs before all the people on that little island have full bellies is just sad. The dogs will feel no pain from being put to sleep. Nobody can, will, or wants to even suggest that the children be put to…

> The dogs will feel no pain from being put to sleep.

> Nobody can, will, or wants to even suggest that the children be put to sleep. We will let the children suffer horrible pain before we ever even consider suggesting such a thing.

Sounds like the proper solution is to convince people that putting kits to sleep is OK, then...

(Not really, but it does seem to follow from your statements)

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#824

Post by primeradical »

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #218
primeradical wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you feel my characterization is unfair. But the focus on our own personal interaction with the virus without acknowledging how ignoring shelter at home orders can spread the virus to others, is selfish and egocentric. I do not believe there is room for an alternative viewpoint to that.

Your focus on the virus spread while ignoring the tens of millions of people who have lost their jobs because of this is selfish and egocentric. I do not believe there is room for an alternative viewpoint to that.

I don't understand your statement. Could you clarify?

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#825

Post by usaar333 »

Scipio_Afri wrote: post #746
tptacek wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably need to be careful with the numbers, because they're not necessarily a reflection of new cases so much as new testing.

The US has not grown capacity over the last two weeks. Its pretty much flat lined.

That is not true in Santa Clara county at all.

600 to 1000 tests per day in 2 weeks

https://www.sccgov.org/sites/covid19/Pages/dashboard.aspx

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#826

Post by umvi »

thethethethe wrote: post #677
umvi wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let the old and immuno-compromised shelter in place then while the rest of us build herd immunity. We don't shut down the tobacco or alcohol industry even though second hand smoke and DUIs kill orders of magnitude more innocents than covid-19 ever will. Millions of people die every year. That's never going to change - such is life. You gotta draw a line somewhere and I think the "save lives at all costs, even the cos…

You don’t think that covid-19 growing largely unchecked, infecting millions of Americans and overwhelming our healthcare system won’t crash the economy and kill young people? We have a lot to lose and betting it all on for the economy, which would likely be ruined either way, seems foolish to me.

I suppose I just don't believe that would happen. You can still practice social distancing/face masks/hand washing without shelter-in-place. I believe those three things alone would significantly slow down the spread to manageable levels. So I simply don't see a scenario where it "grows unchecked" to millions in the USA. It would hit millions eventually (like swine flu) but it would be manageable (not "unchecked"). Most of the US is geographically separated and not densely populated (except for cities like NYC), and we are only at 3M cases globally and that is with months of growth.

Lastly, even if it grew unchecked, I don't believe overwhelming the healthcare system would crash the economy. It might devastate the healthcare industry, but it wouldn't devastate all industries like prolonged, no-end-in-sight lockdowns are doing. I also don't believe it would "kill [significant amounts of] young people" because I believe the mortality rate is much lower than currently estimated.

Suicide is already killing more young people than covid-19 due to lockdown. 2 USAFA cadets committed suicide because of lockdown orders this month, yet 0 cadets have died from covid-19.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#827

Post by primeradical »

jshevek wrote: post #249
primeradical wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you feel my characterization is unfair. But the focus on our own personal interaction with the virus without acknowledging how ignoring shelter at home orders can spread the virus to others, is selfish and egocentric. I do not believe there is room for an alternative viewpoint to that.

No, I'm not expressing my emotions, I'm pointing out the lack of intellectual integrity in the statement.

We'll make it through this man. It's gonna be okay.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#828

Post by rbritton »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #767
holler wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gotcha. I think it's disingenuous to effectively say that people are too stupid to make their own decisions regarding personal safety. There're growing calls to ease the lockdowns right now from people with top scientific credentials. I personally know doctors working in large hospitals who have said it's time to ease restrictions in most areas. It doesn't have to be all-or nothing. https://nypost.com/2020/04/26/scie…

If this were about personal safety, it'd be an entirely different scenario. The problem is that people's actions here are significantly affecting the safety of other people.

A virtually identical argument could be made for the same thing with the sides swapped. Some people's actions (i.e., those imposing lockdowns and other restrictions) are significantly affecting the safety (i.e., mental health, solvency, etc) of other people. It's a balancing scale, not just an independent bar you're trying to drop to zero.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#829

Post by mlyle »

rallison wrote: post #740
mlyle wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so you think 6-18 months of SIP is going to work? I think that could lead us to a dire situation. No, I don't. I think it's implausible. But this is what those in local public health are calling for. Granted, there's the IMHE model, which somehow fantastically thinks the virus will mostly be gone in Santa Clara County in mid-May, but it's shown very little agreement with the actual data and is nearly as bad as sayi…

> Granted, there's the IMHE model, which somehow fantastically thinks the virus will mostly be gone in Santa Clara County in mid-May, but it's shown very little agreement with the actual data and is nearly as bad as saying the Easter Bunny will take the virus away. Yeah, that IHME model.. It's unfortunate that it's become the model most people have become acquainted with. It has its uses, but the down-slope has previ…

Yup, but now #16 is no longer true. IMHE has entered the re-opening fray, and is setting target dates based on when they think we'll be down to fewer than 1 infection per million. It seems that it's driving public policy, and it's kinda ridiculous.

Decay seems to be very slow even in the jurisdictions with the strictest controls. (I do think the hardest hit jurisdictions may show something close to symmetry).

The disease is probably circulating in some subpopulations with Rt near or even above 1.0. Even if overall we're showing decay, those groups can continue to grow...

I also really, really, really don't like that if the peak is in the past, the model webpages claim that it predicted it perfectly; when really the webpage is just looking at the history.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#830

Post by mikestew »

ojbyrne wrote: post #519
twoodfin wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a single state in the US that has not waived the “active job search” requirement for unemployment benefits at this point?

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/employers-and-workers-i... Says most states. Without much searching I found at least 3 (AK,WA and CA).

Not Washington:

https://esd.wa.gov/newsroom/job-search-requirement-now-optio...

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