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Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

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Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#821

Post by khedoros1 »

selectodude wrote: post #775
khedoros1 wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Package management is core to the OS, not bolted on. I can change the desktop environment as I please, and potentially run different environments for different purposes, if I so choose. For any piece of software on the system, I can have a part in its development process, if I choose to. I like a non-GUI-centric system. I'm not limited to Apple's drivers, or Apple hardware in general (it's pretty and sleek, but I fin…

How is package management via apt any different than using homebrew? They're both equally "bolted on".

Apt is the update mechanism for the system. OS updates, application updates, etc. It's a core piece of software on a Debian-related system. Brew behaves more like an alternate software repository...it's not like you're using it to fetch your kernel updates in macOS.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#822

Post by hyperpallium »

It's trivially credible that Apple will use its own chips in macs - it already has cpu's faster that its low-end, ultra portables. They could have done it years ago.

But less credible that they will only use their own chips. However, there have been complaints that Apple's high-end hasn't been very high recently - maybe laying the ground-work, lowering expectations?

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#823

Post by 05 »

jernfrost wrote: post #813
nunez wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. Finder is garbage compared to Windows Explorer. OS hotkey navigation is much better on Windows and GNOME/KDE/Fluxbox/xmonad. (I actually miss using xmonad; it was soooo good at this.) Office applications (still very real in a lot of environments) are mostly awful on the Mac. iTerm2 is fine, but I prefer PuTTY. Starting applications by their binary name with WIN + R is better (for me) than trying…

Odd I find hotkeys much better on Mac. They follow a more logical predictable pattern and are much more standarized. E.g. what is the standard windows hotkey for getting info/properties of an object. Never found one. Also if an app doesn’t have configuration of hotkeys you are screwed. On Mac hotkey config is OS wide. The command console experience on windows is horrible. Office apps are better on Mac. Pages, numbers…

On your last point: START "title" [/D path] [options] "command" [parameters]

It's been there since forever (Win95?).

start (without parameters) - open a new CMD window

start . - open an Explorer window of $PWD

start - open an explorer window of DPATH dir

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#824

Post by Synaesthesia »

jernfrost wrote: post #813
nunez wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. Finder is garbage compared to Windows Explorer. OS hotkey navigation is much better on Windows and GNOME/KDE/Fluxbox/xmonad. (I actually miss using xmonad; it was soooo good at this.) Office applications (still very real in a lot of environments) are mostly awful on the Mac. iTerm2 is fine, but I prefer PuTTY. Starting applications by their binary name with WIN + R is better (for me) than trying…

Odd I find hotkeys much better on Mac. They follow a more logical predictable pattern and are much more standarized. E.g. what is the standard windows hotkey for getting info/properties of an object. Never found one. Also if an app doesn’t have configuration of hotkeys you are screwed. On Mac hotkey config is OS wide. The command console experience on windows is horrible. Office apps are better on Mac. Pages, numbers…

The Mac environment takes some getting used to, it took me years to learn all the little details, like if you select a bunch of folders and double-click, it will open all of them. To close them all, option-click the close button.

I do find Finder to be inferior to explorer in almost every way. That tree pane on the left is too useful.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#825

Post by tbodt »

floatingatoll wrote: post #554
obmelvin wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could see an argument that Apple should make a tool like Homebrew themselves or official support Homebrew development (maybe they do, haven't looked), but including it in the app store would just be confusing. Plus, I can type 'brew install ' far faster than I could type into the search bar and make the necessary clicks to install.

That same argument extends to the users of Homebrew who are overflowing with cash from startup get-rich moments: please consider funding (if you have $1/mo or more to spare) the Homebrew patreon, which currently lists a total of 285 paying users out of the million developers that depend on it to earn a paycheck every month. https://www.patreon.com/homebrew (I do not participate in Homebrew other than as a user.)

I've been using homebrew for years and have never heard of this. Maybe the reason there's only 285 patrons is that the patreon page has not been promoted in any way that I can remember?

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#826

Post by pjmlp »

bb88 wrote: post #516
npunt wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2/3s of all PR activity on Github is on a Mac, for what it's worth. Certainly the platform punches above its weight relative to market share. https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2017/102/?time=2...

My only complaint is that if the mac were truly a developer-centric device, I wouldn't need homebrew to install software. It should just be in the apple store for me to download.

Macs are macOS and iOS developer-centric devices, those hardly need homebrew.

Other types of developers were a kind of nice to have regarding sales, but no longer relevant.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#827

Post by Symbiote »

jernfrost wrote: post #812
sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

Strange, I have the complete reverse experience. Mac is by far the best. Windows is worst. I use Linux at work daily but miss my mac. It is much more unstable and unpolished. The app selection is really weak and the integration between gui and console is weak although better than on windows. Windows is an utter mess these days as Microsoft is jumping between so many different UI paradigms.

Can you give examples of the GUI and CLI integration? I have a mac, but mostly use a Linux desktop, so I don't know what I'm missing.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#828

Post by pjmlp »

lr4444lr wrote: post #522
sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

I can concede Linux might be superior, but were you comparing apples to apples with OSX vs. Windows? Most Windows development seems to be on MS-based development stacks. A lot more of platform-independent development happens on OSX, I'd be willing to bet, and that iOS development on OSX would be commensurately productive as .NET development on a Windows machine.

The issue seems to be many equate developer == UNIX developer, as if there wasn't anything else.

Also UNIX underpinnings on macOS, just like on NeXTSTEP, was just a mere convenience, the OS culture was never about crufty CLI programming, and many that only jumped into Apple after OS X have not yet grasped it.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#829

Post by Symbiote »

viraptor wrote: post #695
quotemstr wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why are you sticking with it? Go out and get a nice Linux machine. Expense it. If you're working at a company too square to approve that, install Linux on your Apple laptop. If you're working at a company that won't even allow that, well, you have my condolences. Things to ask before you sign, I guess.

This works, but only for simple environments. Given a work environment where you have a choice of: a) prepared environment with all application dependencies available and a tested-by-everyone, one-click-install/update on a bad system, or b) preferred system, but you have to do all of that from scratch yourself... Sometimes the reasonable answer is "a", even if you're allowed to do "b" (on your own time of course)

I asked for both a and b.

I could make do with an older computer for Office and Outlook.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#830

Post by pjmlp »

mmcconnell1618 wrote: post #393
bhouston wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adobe has a lot of stuff that works well on iOS. ARM has neon instructions for SIMD. I think they will be okay. Changing over from one SIMD architecture to another is not that hard. AutoCAD isn't ultra optimized for Mac anyhow, it will be okay. This transition may screw up or significantly slow down VMs of Intel-based OSes like Ubuntu.

I think developers flocked to Intel Macs because it gave them one machine that could run Mac, Linux, Windows in virtual or bootcamp environments. If x86 compatibility goes away, developers may jump ship to Linux or Windows machines.

UNIX developers you mean.
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