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Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

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Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No message between friends should ever need “polishing” unless you are trying to deliver really bad news in the softest way possible.

That's even worse. What could be more cold and impersonal than delivering bad news using an LLM?

Skywriting?

Don't break bad news over text...

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#812
post #523
post #393

They worry me. A lot. My son is 15 and I use Google Family Link to control what he does on his phone: it's pretty open for the most part (I receive notifications of installs) but Gemini is a hard-ban. We've spoken at length of the dangers. He says his pals use LLMs frequently and I suspect that's the reason for their test scores: some of them are in the 20% - 40% range for tests whereas my son is 80%+ because he stud…

> Gemini is a hard-ban. Sounds like you would hard-ban your son from using Internet if it was only introduced 5 years ago

No, that's not the case and I don't think comparing Gemini and the internet is the same.

The internet (to stretch your analogy) is more like a shit load of library books that you have to look through but Gemini is the guy that goes and reads the books for you and tells you the answer.

I'm not saying they don't have their uses for me as an adult (I'm a software architect), but for a 15 year old, they absolutely do not have their uses! At all.

At age 15 you know nothing about life. You should learn it yourself, not be told it!

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#813
post #393

They worry me. A lot. My son is 15 and I use Google Family Link to control what he does on his phone: it's pretty open for the most part (I receive notifications of installs) but Gemini is a hard-ban. We've spoken at length of the dangers. He says his pals use LLMs frequently and I suspect that's the reason for their test scores: some of them are in the 20% - 40% range for tests whereas my son is 80%+ because he stud…

and this is why standardized testing exists so they can apply those off hour work and discipline to demonstrating their aptitude for being comfortable with boredom long enough to function in academic and workplace environments that require it. rather than perceiving AI as a danger you should be looking at how he can leverage it to accelerate and enhance his learning but the political environment focus on removing sta…

Sorry, but it's a hard "no" on that. It's a danger at age 15!

I guarantee that without constant supervision, he'd use it for everything.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think I wouldn’t know? Pray tell which race do you think I’m going to expect to find? Because let me tell you, the demographics are pretty much exactly what I expected. And my response to that is…so what? If anything you’re telling on yourself with your statement.

Rather than have me guess about what you know, would you care to explain what you meant by your original comment then? What exactly were you referring to as "racist"?

I read his comment as tongue-in-cheek.

Why was SAT gotten rid off - testing is racist.

Why is 6-8th grade accelerated math pathway gotten rid off - math is racist

https://edsource.org/2021/california-math-guidance-sparks-ne...

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#815
post #812
post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gemini is a hard-ban. Sounds like you would hard-ban your son from using Internet if it was only introduced 5 years ago

No, that's not the case and I don't think comparing Gemini and the internet is the same. The internet (to stretch your analogy) is more like a shit load of library books that you have to look through but Gemini is the guy that goes and reads the books for you and tells you the answer. I'm not saying they don't have their uses for me as an adult (I'm a software architect), but for a 15 year old, they absolutely do not…

Remind me during my early college days in which they even discourage you from using Eclipse or NetBeans during intro to programming class.

Only notepad allowed. So much fun memorizing Java util imports.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a professor, what's you opinion regard the Socratic method with LLMs? Would that be preferable over simply "give me the answer" prompt?

Everything that provides students with a workflow to think and to try to find solutions to a problem is much better than giving the answer directly! Unfortunately there will always be students that prefer to take the shortcut.. How could we "force" the students to use an LLM that confronted their doubts with more questions? We could tell them to start each chat with a specific prompt (to use the socratic method, etc)…

Yeah that makes sense. I'm a Master's student myself, ironically on Artificial Intelligence. Often I feel overwhelmed by the amount of papers and the mysterious math logic I have to understand when presented with a model.

Accidentally in Google Colab, I've found that there is a "Learn mode" and somehow I managed to access the instructions for it which indeed instructed to ask questions, then I researched a bit more and learned about the socratic method.

So far I'm doing the combo of Zettelkasten + Socratic on Claude on papers + slides or video classes. I'm not sure if it's placebo or not, but I feel much more confident after iterating with each paper or topic this way. Asking the answer to the LLM never felt like I was studying. I read, but I never understood, I was never challenged. Perhaps what we need is the Unis around the globe to come up with a standard, a guideline so that the students can maximise the advantages of having the LLM when a professor or assistant is not available.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That attributes your success to the wrong cause. Your career (and mine) has been successful and personally enriching because of the colossal demand for software developers over the past 25 years guaranteeing employment to anyone who could write fizzbuzz. But demand for developers can now be filled by AI that does know how to manually manage memory and a whole lot more. Those deep technical skills may well be the only…

> But demand for developers can now be filled by AI Oh? Is that so? I've yet to see any evidence of this. I've seen big companies laying off developers with dubious claims about them being replaced by AI. None of them can prove their claims. Their software hasn't gotten noticeably better. Jevons paradox appears to be in full swing. No sign yet of software slowing down. In fact, my company has continued to grow in dem…

It only took about 10 years between the Linux 2.2 kernel, the first version that was really decent for server workloads, and Sun Microsystems, formerly the largest UNIX server vendor, to be sold to Oracle for peanuts.

Either 2025 or 2026 is the first year that LLMs got really decent so...

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not noticing the decline in my own abilities any more than I had before using them. I finished undergrad 20 years ago and my once sharp math skills had been severely diminished within only 5-10 years. Just simple arithmetic and percentages that I could rapidly do in my head became dependent on calculators/spreadsheets. For all other trivia type knowledge, my brain has offloaded it to the internet RAM in my pocket…

I think some people are okay with communication that’s less involved. Like meme-y BSing where everyone involved knows everyone else is putting like 12% of their thinking power into sending a response. I don’t really enjoy that, so I find having that many threads stressful and annoying. I just take a hard line and will unilaterally downgrade communications (while politely letting the other party know). I have all my f…

I set my phone in do not disturb mode permanently. Only phone calls make it through. When I'm at home, only phone calls from important people make it through.

It improved my life. Not by a huge amount, but enough to be worth it. People learned my responses might take a while. Most people don't care. Those that do.. tough shit

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or your lazy excuse is an even more convenient thing to blame

I don't think his comment was lazy, there has been a documented concerted effort to get rid of math and standardized tests because real world data conflicts with their political reality. Doing so ultimately diminishes those that have earned their place to stand as exceptional performers through hard work and grit and its replacing meritocracy with a form of apathy disguised as political empathy. Contrary to what one…

an even lazier comment

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#820
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spring 2026 saw a marked shift in student performance. We saw it in intro physics courses on the East coast too. I bet anyone who cared to look saw it.

Yep, I'm starting to hear this more and more. Matches my local data. It's a very massive and visible shift in DFW rates.

I'm at a public southeastern R2. Not selective. Mostly regional catchment. Most of our students have to learn how to be good students their first year or two.

We're making major changes in course structure as a result, so if things go well we won't have enough data to measure any kind of meaningful trend

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