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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The auto industry has spent billions of dollars on propaganda to convince Americans they need a big truck for their self image. They have done this because big trucks are by far the most profitable segment of vehicle, and emissions regulations reward vehicles for being large.

I always find this talking point so weird. Trucks are great and people want them. There is no ultimate truth here where people can't see the light and evil corporations are making us buy trucks. Theyre making trucks because we want them. I love mine, and admittedly don't really "need" it.

People only want them because of the stupid loophole that lets vehicles over a certain weight bypass regulations.

If the massive cars cost what they should, people wouldn't buy them as much.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you live in an apartment, where do you park your trailer? Most apartments won't let you keep/store such a thing... are you going to pay for a storage unit large enough for a trailer to use occasionally?

If you live in an apartment, what are you regularly doing that needs a giant truck or a trailer? It's not like you're doing woodworking in your one bedroom apartment or doing lots of gardening. And if your answer is "well you'd go to the workshop and do that"...well there's your answer on where to park the trailer.

A lot of people do construction work and use a pickup truck while living in an apartment. They aren't working at a "workshop" the jobsite is residential neighborhoods.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#813

Article says the next F-150 Lightning will be an EREV-style plugin hybrid. Which, if so, makes a lot of sense. EVs are great, but not so much for trucks. I was always bothered about how cars were either supposed to be all electric or all ICE. Working together is the smart way forward.

Remains to be seen if it’s smart - personally I think erev is going to be obsoleted very quickly by batteries getting better and cheaper. You can already buy 1000v 5min charging EVs in china, as well as semi-solid state batteries. And the batteries get cheaper year on year, relentlessly. EREVs are a way better idea than the lie of PHEVs, but their time in the market is still limited. I wouldn’t be making that bet as…

Every 5 years, there's a better battery in development 5 years hence. So I'm a bit skeptical that just a better battery would exclude hybrids. Any battery improvement would improve PHEV and EREV vehicles also, and they'd retain their advantage over straight EVs in range.

The advantages of these hybrids is a) using multiple fuels - has all of the main 80%-of-trips-local on electric range advantage of EVs, combined with an extended range of gas (and those gas engines run at optimum rpm, so they're more efficient too) and b) easier on the battery supply chain; they don't need as large batteries; batteries have more uses than just EVs, making all such products cheaper, including EREVs

The real disadvantage is the higher complexity, although EREVs do still get rid of the transmission gearing and other driveline components.

And of course, EREVs are probably the only solution for trucks and off-road vehicles. Edison Motors's diesel EREV for full trucks seems way more promising than Tesla's Semi (if Canada could stop over-regulating their startups, that is).

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHEVs aren’t a lie, but the economics need to be compelling for people to plug in. If my car was a PHEV (it would weigh too much) I would plug it in to save over gas for weekly commutes, but I pay for premium gas.

i mean, they are a lie as they exist today. They were sold as low emissions vehicles (and in the EU this lets them avoid a bunch of regulations!) but real world data shows they have negligible emissions impact. Just because people _could_ use them differently if things were different, doesnt matter, people dont.

EVs, as part of the world economy, aren't emissions-free either. Just at the tailpipe (or lack thereof). Rare-earth mining is very energy-intensive.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't heard of the Slate before. Not sure about only having two doors but the price is a lot more attractive.

Funny, I've never head of Telo before, but I'd trade the rear cab for more bed length. 6' is a good length where you can fit a lot more things.

The Telo has a fold down rear wall to extend the bed. The Slate looks like the wall can be removed in SUV mode, less convenient to do so however.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#816
post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point that’s just a truck with a slightly different shape. I don’t see any anti-truck argument that doesn’t apply to mid sized and larger SUVs

The anti truck sentiment is directed largely at the ever-growing full size trucks. SUVs get less hate because the market for the absurdly huge SUVs is much smaller than the market for reasonably sized (by American standards) SUVs. I don’t think smaller trucks get the same level of hate.

I absolutely use the capacity of my mid-size SUV quite often for a variety of purposes. Don't need anything bigger or the towing capacity of a full-size truck. And, given where I live, renting for a weekend would be very inconvenient. Sure, I could use a smaller hatchback/SUV day to day but I'm not going to own two vehicles at this point (though I used to own a two-seater as well) which some folks would probably also object to.

You pick a reasonable compromise and arguably a full-size truck is overkill for many but a Mazda Miata is probably too small for a lot of people even if it largely works for a lot of day to day stuff.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#817
post #273

Article says the next F-150 Lightning will be an EREV-style plugin hybrid. Which, if so, makes a lot of sense. EVs are great, but not so much for trucks. I was always bothered about how cars were either supposed to be all electric or all ICE. Working together is the smart way forward.

I wonder if it's hybrid electric is super old tech and manufacturers can't have a monopoly on it or something? Hybrids have been powering heavy industry and locomotives for the past 100 years or so, it seems like a perfect first step towards mass electrification of vehicles. Plus I imagine it'd be possible to swap the engine for more batteries as that tech improves.

Edison Motors up in Canada is interesting, in the truck space.

Diesel EREV semis, and heavy-duty pickup modifications. Sounds like they're running into overregulation issues though.

This is how China gets ahead, because the West is dumb and thinks regulation helps. They've already dominated drones (since it's effectively illegal if not actually illegal in the States to make them), seems the same will happen with EVs.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in an apartment, what are you regularly doing that needs a giant truck or a trailer? It's not like you're doing woodworking in your one bedroom apartment or doing lots of gardening. And if your answer is "well you'd go to the workshop and do that"...well there's your answer on where to park the trailer.

A lot of people do construction work and use a pickup truck while living in an apartment. They aren't working at a "workshop" the jobsite is residential neighborhoods.

What a joke. I know several people who work in residential construction. All of them bought their large trucks associated with their small businesses for the tax write-offs. None of them actually use their trucks as trucks. When they really need a truck, they drive their fancy $80-100k pickup trucks to the warehouse, where they hop in their International trucks to actually go carry loads places.

My neighbors are doing extensive renovations to their home. Half the people show up in pretty fancy trucks most days. Nothing in the bed, the trucks look pristine with their company branding. Most of the actual people working hard in the house show up in beater Corollas or Civics. When material shows up, it comes in the back of a flatbed truck by the distributor dropping off pallets of drywall or mud or whatever or in some box van. These people driving trucks to their construction jobs rarely actually need pickup trucks for their construction work. Its like arguing chefs need to carry their own gas ranges to the kitchen. The real work often gets done with the company's equipment, not their own personal luxury toys.

When roofers came to redo the roof on my home a few years ago it was the same story. All the sales people drove big fancy pickup trucks to talk and show off proposals on an iPad. I didn't realize a pickup was absolutely necessary for an iPad, but hey I guess that's what it takes. After all others in this comment area think you need a few tons of towing capacity to move a 50lb canoe. A big box truck came to drop off the pallets of shingles and decking to my roof. The workers showed up in beater cars, the supervisors showed up in pristine fancy pickup trucks. Once again, they can easily write off that big truck cost immediately, but a passenger car would take years to write off the depreciation. I wonder why they chose the big pickup instead of the smaller car.

I've got family working commercial construction as well. He also drives a fancy big truck. When asked if he uses it for work, his words were "fuck no, why would I fuck up my truck for them?" He uses it to drive to job sites on well-paved roads, goes to Twin Peaks for UFC nights, and sometimes get groceries.

Residential construction jobs also existed in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s, and yet pickup trucks weren't the top sellers in any of those decades. Meanwhile in the 2000s onwards pickups and large SUVs hold a good chunk of the top selling spots. I guess we just all work in residential construction?

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#819
post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live (Vancouver Island) there's been somewhat of a Renaissance of the minivan-as-adventure-vehicle. Lots of imported Delicas but also a fair few of those Mercedes Sprinter 4x4s.

I wish my minivan was 2 inches higher and all wheel drive. I’m not sure how much I’d want to adventure in my front wheel drive low clearance van. It’s a great vehicle for most practical cases, though it is not very fuel efficient.

A lot of standard SUVs don't have particularly great ground clearance relative to Jeep Wranglers and the like. Though that doesn't really matter unless you're going off-road in Death Valley and the like. The current Toyota Sienna (which has improved a lot) is better than my Honda Passport in terms on gas mileage.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#820

I expected the "T word" to come out in the article, however this fails to address any of the practical reasons it isn't a good replacement for the value-engineered F-150: * The price isn't right for small businesses. These trucks are quite expensive * They're difficult to repair. A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired; these things are designed like iPhones to be disposable. * Parts availability is scarce, contra…

>They're loaded with useless/barely-functional interior electronics that are poor copies of Tesla Man, Tesla apologists are rewriting reality now. In no way shape or form is Tesla interior even remotely good.

The OP didn't actually imply that Tesla is good, just that Ford is worse.
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