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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#811

Post by tokinonagare »

necovek wrote: post #803

Democracies around the world are increasingly looking to surveil and expose private data of their citizens, and introducing laws where simple act of defiance will become criminal. I believe we should increasingly turn to steganography as a way to ensure our privacy (obviously, combined with encryption). Something that provides simple plausible deniability but lots of data to use as a carrying medium should become the…

> Democracies around the world are increasingly looking to surveil and expose private data of their citizens, and introducing laws where simple act of defiance will become criminal.

Not only that, but also trying to ban platforms that don't follow their censorship guidelines (TikTok in the US, X under scrutiny in UE) and even voiding elections when the result is not good (Romania) under very slim technology-related pretense (somehow a few ads are deemed enough to cancel an election, but 24/7 oriented news from every established newspapers in another country like France is totally OK). It's becoming harder and harder to believe in said democracy when the methods are all but looking like the ones used in non-democracies.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#812

Post by jonplackett »

I saw a comment earlier about this being the USA asking the UK to do this.

Sounds like quite the conspiracy theory, but if the USA were not OK with this, the UK surely wouldn’t dare to take on a crown jewel in the US tech sector, potentially causing them serious problems.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#813

Post by chgs »

grayhatter wrote: post #362
free_bip wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this work wrt false advertising laws? If I relied upon their end to end encryption and it turns out to be false advertising because there's a secret backdoor, who do I sue?

no one, you'll be in secret prison before you somehow gain standing

If the back door was used the a three letter agency sure.

If the backdoor was exploited by a criminal though?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#814

Post by tremon »

tokinonagare wrote: post #811
necovek wrote: post #803

Democracies around the world are increasingly looking to surveil and expose private data of their citizens, and introducing laws where simple act of defiance will become criminal. I believe we should increasingly turn to steganography as a way to ensure our privacy (obviously, combined with encryption). Something that provides simple plausible deniability but lots of data to use as a carrying medium should become the…

> Democracies around the world are increasingly looking to surveil and expose private data of their citizens, and introducing laws where simple act of defiance will become criminal. Not only that, but also trying to ban platforms that don't follow their censorship guidelines (TikTok in the US, X under scrutiny in UE) and even voiding elections when the result is not good (Romania) under very slim technology-related p…

voiding elections when the result is not good (Romania)

Downvoting for this claim. Stop spreading misinformation.

1) it wasn't the government voiding the election, it was the courts

2) it wasn't because they disagreed with the results, it was because an existing law was broken (undisclosed campaign financing)

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#816

Post by [deleted] »

TechnicalVault wrote: post #347
matthewdgreen wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that turning off ADP in the U.K. is sufficient to appease the British Government. The Investigatory Powers Act can also be interpreted to give the U.K. the right to ask for encrypted data from users outside of the U.K. (see Apple making this exact point in a filing here [1].) Turning off ADP in the U.K. doesn't end the controversy if that's what's at stake. [1] https://bsky.app/profile/matthewdgreen.b…

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

[deleted]

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#817

Post by Aetheridon »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #663
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

What is up with the UK? I have always loved my British friends and appreciated England’s history (setting aside their brutality during the British Empire). I just don’t understand where they went wrong on curtailing free speech rights of their citizens, privacy rights, etc. I just hope we in the USA don’t follow their lead. Democracies without free speech and privacy are not really democracies.

all started after our guns were taken

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#818

Post by rich_sasha »

kazinator wrote: post #551
didntcheck wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: we accept compromise of people's basic freedom of movement (via arrest) when under investigation. Even though we know a non-negligible amount are innocent, virtually everyone considers it a necessary compromise Perhaps part of the difference is that the public acknowledge this as a necessary _evil_ and get rightly outraged when they hear of people being detained without good cause. But with privacy,…

A compromise here is not technically possible. There is no half crypto. Crypto with a backdoor is not crypto. Someone's encrypted files should be regarded to be in the same category as material they memorized in their brain. Off limits. Find some other way to get evidence about their wrongdoing to convict them.

So, strictly speaking, that's not how UK law, at least, works. The court can absolutely compel you to say things you memorized - in fact, including encryption passwords. You can of course, physically, refuse, but you can be held in contempt of court, and jailed until you reveal the information, indefinitely. So not at all off limits.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#819

Post by rolisz »

tremon wrote: post #814
tokinonagare wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democracies around the world are increasingly looking to surveil and expose private data of their citizens, and introducing laws where simple act of defiance will become criminal. Not only that, but also trying to ban platforms that don't follow their censorship guidelines (TikTok in the US, X under scrutiny in UE) and even voiding elections when the result is not good (Romania) under very slim technology-related p…

voiding elections when the result is not good (Romania) Downvoting for this claim. Stop spreading misinformation. 1) it wasn't the government voiding the election, it was the courts 2) it wasn't because they disagreed with the results, it was because an existing law was broken (undisclosed campaign financing)

2) why wasn't the person/party that broke the law penalized then? PNL was found to have paid for the TikTok ads for Georgescu. Did they get even a slap on the wrist?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#820

Post by TheDong »

necovek wrote: post #803

Democracies around the world are increasingly looking to surveil and expose private data of their citizens, and introducing laws where simple act of defiance will become criminal. I believe we should increasingly turn to steganography as a way to ensure our privacy (obviously, combined with encryption). Something that provides simple plausible deniability but lots of data to use as a carrying medium should become the…

Clever technological tricks are not the solution to political problems.

"Plausible deniability" is cute, but in practice, who cares?

> impossible to convict someone over it.

Yeah, sure, tell me how well that works for you. "Your honor, the data is mathematically indistinguishable from random bytes so you can't convict me" -> "The witness saw you type in a password to view data from that image, give us the password or you're going to prison. Even if you don't give us the passphrase, the police officer says you might be using something called 'steganography', and that's already enough to convict you"

The court and legal system does not care about clever logical tricks or cryptographic tricks or any of that.

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