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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, both regions are deserts occupied in majority by religious zealots of a single ethnic group that believe in polygamy and their economy is primarily driven by natural resource exports (oil for the Middle East; gold, other metals, and agricultural products for Utah). I don't think the comparison is that far off. Utah is 85% white and 60% Mormon, so... The only reason that Utah isn't whiter and more Mormon is due…

The LDS church has prohibited polygamy for well over a century now: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-la... LGBT rights in Utah is also middle of the road among U.S. states. The LDS church also supported the recent Respect for Marriage Act unlike many other conservative Christian organizations. Your other points about climate and economy are extremely generic and not really a strong argument f…

> Consider travelling outside North America for once before making such egregious comparisons again.

I've extensively traveled the world, to more than 70 countries, and have spent years of my life living abroad. The United States is far more diverse and heterogeneous than most other countries in the world, contrary to your statements. Some subsets of the US are regionally /very/ homogeneous, however, which is part of my point.

It would help to start thinking of the US for what it is, a federation of 50 states, not a single entity with a single mind. There is a high level of diversity within the US, but in each state, there tends to be a balance point towards some particular dominant culture, which can include religion, and in the case of Utah was explicitly created to include religion (Utah was founded to give the Mormons a home).

> The LDS church has prohibited polygamy for well over a century now: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/polygamy-la...

Officially. Unofficially, polygamy is still widely practiced in Utah as part of the official doctrine of FDLS, which is the breakaway Fundamental sect of the LDS Church. The FDLS has recently gained more prominence, which lead to Utah making a surprising reversal recently by effectively decriminalizing polygamy, something that was for a long time a felony in Utah in order to follow LDS Church doctrine that banned polygamy as part of the split from FDLS. FDLS exists almost entirely within the state of Utah however, and the words of the Book of Mormon on this topic are literally plainly in black and white.

Technically speaking, the Quran heavily restricts polygamy in Al-Nisa', 4:3 and clarified in Al-Nisa', 4:129. In practice however, polygamy is widely practiced in the Middle East and is a core part of the way in which many people practice Islam and has had no significant actions taken against it. It's specifically a core tenet of the Wahabi sect of Islam, which is the dominant sect in the modern Middle East (although other sects generally reject polygamy).

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#812
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For instance, jail parents whose minor children view pornography. Does this seem at all practical to you? To me, this seems akin to dropping ID requirements at liquor stores and bars, and instead enacting a law to jail the parents of minors who drink liquor.

> To me, this seems akin to dropping ID requirements at liquor stores and bars, and instead enacting a law to jail the parents of minors who drink liquor. Purchasing liquor isn't a first amendment right. The standards are indeed different.

As a non-American, whether something is legislated in their/your constitution, or at some other level, is for the most part, an implementation detail of the law that isn't too relevant to my concerns about the actual laws enforced.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because when buying alcohol, you can for the most part (outside of online purchases, but even then the courier can check an ID upon delivery hypothetially) verify it fairly easily. With online porn, the scale and complications doing it put a much bigger burden on the providers. Additionally porn has a much bigger stigma than alcohol, so keeping record of what you watch, especially if you're into something more niche…

I recently bought age restricted materials online and had to upload a picture of my photo id with a selfie to a 3rd party verifier. Similar to what crypto currency verification goes through. I think the underlying disagreement/debate is whether or not these initiatives are in good faith. Any implementation of this is going to be imperfect and a motivated person will probably be able to get around this. So the debate,…

Good faith is insufficient for me and what I would expect are a majority of users (not speaking strictly about porn, social media is coming under scrutiny with similar proposed solutions). Many good faith actors experience data breaches, often from internal attacks.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#814
post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state doesn’t recognize such unions, but it doesn’t prohibit them either. So you can’t have multiple marriage licenses, but you can legally hold a public polygamist civil ceremony followed by “cohabitation.” Granted people want the legal befits of a recognized marriage rather than the state to treating it as two actors preforming a ceremony as part of a play. But such distinction are relevant when you say somethi…

https://supreme.findlaw.com/legal-commentary/sister-wives-wi... > If even one of the marriages is a legal, civil marriage, then Kody and the wives are probably guilty of bigamy under Utah's definition. The Utah Code states that a "person is guilty of bigamy when, knowing he has a husband or wife or knowing the other person has a husband or wife, the person purports to marry another person or cohabits with another per…

There’s an actual court case you could look at. It was thrown out on appeal because the state didn’t prosecute them.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally a theocracy /in practice/ because the religious minority is the majority in that region, in a state literally created for them, and they have run it since its foundation on the basis of the their religious beliefs, and continue to do so. You can't get more theocratic while being inside the US.

It's literally not a theocracy /in practice/. You don't get to redefine words to mean whatever you feel like. A theocracy is not a state that has some laws that correspond to one religion's moral code. It has never meant that, nor will it ever mean that. Here are some major practical differences between a theocracy and a constitutional republic. 1. If citizens change their mind, within one election cycle they can rep…

In your definition, theocracy is only a theocratic dictatorship, however there are other forms of theocracy, and I am pointing out one such case. I do not believe either Israel or Utah are literally theocratic, only because they have constitutions that allow the free practice of religion, but in /practice/ both are.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#816

Just the fact that pornography is being taken seriously as something that's dangerous for minors is a good thing really.

Except despite the vast amounts of counter-evidence, people still are somehow dumb enough to think that hiding stuff from kids works (drugs, guns, porn, e.t.c). Porn is absolutely fine for kids to watch as long as the parents properly contextualize it. The issue is that somehow societally accepted that its taboo to talk to your kid about sex at an early age, and plenty of otherwise normal parents are embarrassed to d…

> Except despite the vast amounts of counter-evidence, people still are somehow dumb enough to think that hiding stuff from kids works (drugs, guns, porn, e.t.c).

It's super effective. Not perfect, but "hiding stuff from kids" has excellent ROI—relatively easy, and damn effective. Ask any parent, we do it all the time, and if it didn't work, we'd stop.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a mechanism for empowering a polity to protect minors from certain things the polity deems they're not ready for that doesn't rely on arbitrary rules?

How about: If you don't want your kids to see it, that's on you. Either accept that you are a shitty parent who can't raise children to your satisfaction, or get better at parenting. Don't force consequences on me just because you are incompetent.

As a parent myself, I'd like to say that it's not that easy. There are measures you can take, but it doesn't always work.

The web is maybe easy to control, but what about all the other means of communication kids have now, like in-game social tools? In the end that comes down to do you ban everything that could cause an issue, and then you are isolating your child from their friends.

Even if that issue is solved, I've heard stories of kids 'forcing' other kids to watch porn on phones at school. How do you prevent that one? Most often the other parents are unaware, don't care, or even provide the porn.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's addictive for one. There are increasing number of support groups for men who are struggling with pornography use and for their spouses in dealing with having a dependant partner. It creates a space for people to explore and normalise their distressing sexual interests without questioning the root causes. Producers will often intentionally seek out vulnerable young women and groom them with promises of fame and r…

Do you have sources for any of these points, or are they all personal opinion?

I chose these points specifically because I felt I could back them up with sources if pressed.

I began with personal opinion and then removed everything I felt wouldn't stand to scrutiny, even if I do still believe it.

I chose not to include sources immediately because that would have required a great deal of upfront effort on my behalf, which I wasn't willing to spend since this is also a place where I come to find relaxation as well as intellectual stimulation.

If there are any particular points you're interested in discussing I'll be glad to share the basis for my belief and go into discussion.

If it's all of them then that still goes but it may be a week before I get back to you.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#819
post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state doesn’t recognize such unions, but it doesn’t prohibit them either. So you can’t have multiple marriage licenses, but you can legally hold a public polygamist civil ceremony followed by “cohabitation.” Granted people want the legal befits of a recognized marriage rather than the state to treating it as two actors preforming a ceremony as part of a play. But such distinction are relevant when you say somethi…

https://supreme.findlaw.com/legal-commentary/sister-wives-wi... > If even one of the marriages is a legal, civil marriage, then Kody and the wives are probably guilty of bigamy under Utah's definition. The Utah Code states that a "person is guilty of bigamy when, knowing he has a husband or wife or knowing the other person has a husband or wife, the person purports to marry another person or cohabits with another per…

Wouldn't the solution be to not marry anyone and solely cohabitate with your partners? Get power of attorney, etc. to close the gap on the marriage perks.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eliminating the discretion of a cashier is not a bad thing. It harms no one and makes their job easier.

It harms me by making me ask permission of strangers to eat and drink what I choose. I don't think telling people to operate as mindless robots makes their job easier.

The permission is granted by your government. Either move to a libertarian paradise where 10 year olds can drink or accept that a merchant will apply measures to protect their liquor license.

Far more harmful is self-checkout without a discount for free labor or treating your customers like criminals when they leave the store with their own property.

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