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The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

vanityfair.com

811–820 of 1001 posts

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#811

It’s crazy to me how many people on even this forum, a place purportedly of science, continue to dismiss a lab leak origin out of hand citing it as some sort of crackpot theory. The serious questions raised in this article have been around since last April but it’s only now it’s even allowed to talk about them on digital forums. Excellent write up by Vanity Fair.

That’s because “lab leak” origin isn’t consistently defined. Is it that it was engineered? Was it just being studied? Were the first cases just workers at the lab workers who were doing collections?

I’ve always said, focusing on the origins of “who was responsible” rather than dealing with containment first is counterproductive.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#812

I know that most people won't; but if this article is some kind of major a revelation to you, I hope that you take some time to re-evaluate your information sources. You really should think more carefully about how you detect bullshit. There were those who were sounding the alarm about this lab leak hypothesis well over a year ago. The overwhelming media narrative to look away from that hypothesis and smear those who…

I'm not sure why you are being downvoted for suggesting people should form their own conclusions rather than blindly following team red or blue.

Yeah, that feeling of belonging to a team is all that matters to a lot of people.

I know several people whose happiness is based upon whether or not the Atlanta Falcons or Braves are having a good season. It's bizarre to me, but there it is.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but my friends who are tell me that's a lot of changes, and that experiments might change a few base pairs or proteins at a time. A lab leak theory doesn't explain how gain of function study resulted in so many mutations, unless they were blasting these viruses with radiation Or explicitly creating chimeric coronaviruses, which has been the state of the are for some time. Here's https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/265520…

I've read a few articles, skimmed a few papers and sent them to friends. The counterargument is that there still aren't enough similarities. The mutations on covid 19 are Really Different compared to the known and studied viruses. If it was a lab leak of an engineered chimera, you'd be able to see that A proteins came from virus X and B proteins came from virus Y and Z, but that hasn't been shown to be the case. From…

My understanding is that this is what gain of function research is all about. Accelerated evolution within a lab towards infecting a specific species.

It doesn't have to be crispr introducing reach mutation.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#814
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it's shady to provide that funding. What I'm saying is it demonstrates conflict of interest. Last year in May 5 2020 Fauci dismissed the idea that the virus came from a lab that his own organisation was providing funds to - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anthony-fauci-wuhan-lab-coronav... Whether or not anything shady was happening, the conflict of interest is clear.

Would Fauci have even known? Budget numbers say NIAID clears around $5 billion in grant funding per year and this grant was more at the $100k per year level. Another source shows that NIAID receives around 3,000 grant applications per year and that's just in two of their multiple grant types. It seems most likely to me that the grant was approved and funded by a subject-area committee without Fauci being involved at…

>Would Fauci have even known?

So maybe he finds out before making statements?

I've lost faith in Fauci when he admitted he lied about the efficacy of masks early on in the pandemic. He literally came out and stated he lied in order to make sure frontline healthcare workers had enough PPE. That was the most insane statement I've ever heard a public health leader make - lying about healthcare to the public that may result in more infections. That is how you destroy public trust.

What's sad is that the population would understand if you just told them the truth, namely that masks help, but our frontline works desperately need them so getting them masks and PPE is a priority.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#815
post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's around one mutation each time it transmits between hosts (for flu it is one each time it goes cell to cell). 1,136 doesn't seem that high, say it hops 100 bats a year, that's just a divergence of 11 years of bat hopping (the more mutations that add up maybe the rate doesn't hold due to conserved regions though?). 5X less hops a year, 55 years: still a blink.

Well yeah, but that's an argument towards it being spread from the wild/against it being a lab escape, right?

It is countering him saying that mutation count must have been done in a lab, but not arguing either way.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#816
post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guys, a bit of a tangent if I may? This is not normally my lane, but I really wish we could get over this term ‘wet market’. From a western point of view if you really think about it, it’s derogatory, and likely based in racial paranoia. We’ve all heard this term time and time again in the media. But after looking into it more, it’s not really accurate. Just call it a market. Or a farmers market as we call them in Am…

Lol. I just asked my friend from Beijing sitting next to me if the term wet market is racist. Do a bit of research before engaging in ridiculous pearl clutching.

I don't think I made my point very clear. And don't assume I did no research before you offer nonconstructive insults. Let me clarify.

Sure the term, in and of itself isn't racist. It's the way it was used in our media, and the negative connotations that were implied by it. Especially under the Trump administration.

A good definition: "A wet market is an open marketplace with stalls of vegetables and other food items presented for sale. Many wet markets are found in China and the Philippines. The name is based on the fact that these informal market environments usually have wet floors. Shoppers tolerate sloppy floors and items piled on mats or boards as the foods sold at wet markets are known for their fresh quality and low price. The moisture is created by market workers regularly spraying the produce and floors with water."

Now if that's the way it was presented to us in Western media, there would be no problem. But that's not how it was portrayed. They tried to make it sound like some horrific place. Some god awful disgusting place, where people are eating bats and other weird animals. And it's dirty, really dirty. "If only those dirty Chinese people weren't eating disgusting animals in their 'wet' market, we wouldn't have this pandemic!"

How many times did we hear this repeated by people early on last year? And how many people still believe this depiction of the market? Probably a lot, even in this comment thread it was parroted. Meanwhile in the real world, that market isn't any different than most other markets in another country in the world.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#817
post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strong sentiment that it couldn't have come from the lab was suspicious from day one. It was not even allowed to be a consideration. Also, here on this forum, I was downvoted for saying it shouldn't be ruled out that the lab might be the source.

Maybe this is naive, but what the issue here? These people are alive, the documents exist, the physical locations are accessible. This isn’t archeology. Couldn’t we ... just... check? Like maybe the UN or the group of 7 or something similar? You shut down the globe for a year, seems like it’d be worth running down all the Rabit holes.

>Couldn’t we ... just... check? Like maybe the UN or the group of 7 or something similar?

China could have been forthright from the start (regardless if this was a lab-leak or not), but they weren't, and you can't make them.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#818
post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "Marketplace of ideas" is run by English speakers, in our case, and completely ignores the idea that we or our allies may have been involved in a biological attack on China. Very convenient, in my opinion, since history says NATO countries are the most likely to deploy biological weapons.

> involved in a biological attack on China. It's very unlikely anyone was doing any research on directly using SARS-CoV2 as a weapon. It kills or maims too low a percentage of people to have tactical value, and it's too difficult to contain. (The most effective weapons severely handicap their victims and allow them to live into old age, taking fighters off the field, and turning them into long-term liabilities and li…

> The most effective weapons severely handicap their victims and allow them to live into old age, taking fighters off the field, and turning them into long-term liabilities and living reminders for anyone who might think about fighting you in the future

I do not believe that covid was intentionally designed and released as a bio weapon.

That being said, have you heard of long covid?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#820
post #6
post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

It gets worse - gain of function research was banned under Obama until the ban was lifted in 2017 under Trump - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... I can’t find sources for this right now but apparently Dr Anthony Fauci played a key role in getting the ban lifted. He’s also the head of the NIAID ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci ) which (apparently) is the ultimate source for…

Supposedly, Fauci only got an approval from a low level Trump administration official.

IMO it’s not clear anyone even approved the research. I wouldn’t be surprised if the NIH just pulled a fast one. There’s also no evidence Fauci never mentioned the research to anyone near the beginning of the pandemic. Several Trump officials came out and said they were never told.

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