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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#811

Post by ThreeOne »

cmdli wrote: post #596
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you can argue for less software freedoms, while paying a 30% tax for any app you distribute, is honestly mind boggling to me. >On the one hand, Apple is acting as a store curator and demanding that its customers be made aware of tracking software. This sounds like marketing. Apple is limiting what apps their customers have access to. I wonder if you would make the same argument if Apple starts blocking websites?

As a user, I'm free to buy Android if I want to. I buy iPhones specifically because software developers are forced to go through Apple's more strict guidelines (see the Apple/Facebook fight for a recent example of why I personally like it). I can trust the software I use much more on Apple's platform. I want to have the freedom to buy and use such a platform, and Apple wants the freedom to sell and maintain such a pl…

By that logic, you would want MacOS to be the same, apps only available via the store? It would give you all the same benefits, why is MacOS still 'open'? Why is there a terminal?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#812

Post by insert_coin »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #514
insert_coin wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to one's own work, to one's own mind outcome is arguably the only real right we can even pretend to have. What there is none is the "right" for governments to claim ownership to other's work and dictate you must do what your own free will tells you is not on your best interest, that is why they use force.

My work and private data is stored on apples's systems, so either it's my rights to do as I please or their's.

If you don't like it stop storing your data in Apple's systems. Why do you keep doing what you are against?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#813

Post by ThatPlayer »

fhood wrote: post #139

Apple does not actually have a monopoly, Android exists, has more market share, more options and features, and a better ecosystem of compatible smart devices. If Apple is forced to allow third party app marketplaces it is clear what will happen. Every major player will make their own marketplace and force you to use it to access their software and whatever other software they have paid to make exclusive. Epic is one…

>Apple does not actually have a monopoly

It depends on what you consider the market. Apple totally have a market on 'iOS App Distribution'. Which does not compete with Android because you can't get apps on each other. This is the same logic in the EU's ruling against Google's Android monopoly:

>Google's app store dominance is not constrained by Apple's App Store, which is only available on iOS devices.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_...

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#814

Post by insert_coin »

Chris2048 wrote: post #650
insert_coin wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to one's own work, to one's own mind outcome is arguably the only real right we can even pretend to have. What there is none is the "right" for governments to claim ownership to other's work and dictate you must do what your own free will tells you is not on your best interest, that is why they use force.

What nonsense. Apple is a business, it has no right to participate in the economy - it has to follow the rules.

Which is exactly what they've been doing.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#815

Post by nine_k »

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

I don't see any reason why App Store the app won't be able to give you a unified interface to several app stores, including search through all of them.

For some reason, apt-get has been able to do that with different package repos for last 25 years or so.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#816

Post by echelon »

vbezhenar wrote: post #746
Dma54rhs wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's depressing that even on hackernews where you expect people want to tinker and have control over their machines there's a probably a majority who are happy with the situation and use the think of my grandma (aka children) using iPhone situation. There could be numerous ways for Apple to let people run their own software or other stores without giving your grandma malware.

It's pretty simple. Apple users don't want to spell it, so I will. They want Apple to have a strong market position, so Apple can dictate their conditions to everyone else. They like the fact that Apple can bend every developer out there including Facebook and Google, because access to Apple users is a luxury. They like the fact that Apple uses its position to benefit Apple users. Of course Apple uses its position to…

In a way, the Apple fans don't matter. The DOJ can fix this single-handedly and force Apple to open up.

We need to speak up now more than ever. The heat against Apple is turning up, and with all this pressure and focus we can frame our argument with crystal clarity and make it LOUD.

Tim Sweeny, DHH, and plenty of other luminaries are carrying this argument forward. We need to join them in unison.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#817

Post by malwrar »

elefanten wrote: post #695
Dma54rhs wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's depressing that even on hackernews where you expect people want to tinker and have control over their machines there's a probably a majority who are happy with the situation and use the think of my grandma (aka children) using iPhone situation. There could be numerous ways for Apple to let people run their own software or other stores without giving your grandma malware.

Except as soon as it becomes a remotely feasible action (with simple instructions) for the general consumer, a bunch of businesses will start requiring their users to disable "default Grandma mode". Imagine onboarding for Netflix including a pleasantly designed screen saying "Before you can use Netflix, you must Enable Third-party Stores. Go to Settings > Privacy..." If that comes to pass, there will be no highly-gua…

> the market has spoken. And it's happy.

When has the market been given a choice?

App Stores have been the only way to get software on iPhones since they were first released. I can't even install an alternative OS on my iPhone, and jailbreaking seems to have become less accessible now too. How do we know what experience is more competitive if competition isn't allowed to blossom? Maybe the market would value an alternative App Store that is able to compete on moderation and/or the 30% developer tax status quo?

> If that comes to pass, there will be no highly-guarded, highly-moderated mobile OS to choose from.

If the market wants this kind of experience, then surely it will continue to exist no?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#819

Post by HotHotLava »

enos_feedler wrote: post #795
wernercd wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's also stifling innovation to be restricted to one store front. Imagine if all you had was Walmart, Target and KMart (iPhone, Android and Windows). "you can't build a new store because of all the R&D Walmart has put into their stores". You act like all the R&D isn't paid for with phone sales and development kits ($99/year). If you want to restrict the market? The price of that restriction should be regulation.

Actually, imagine if you were Walmart and you've spent the past 25 years investing in your brand, real-estate, parking lots, buildings, advertising, signage, etc. Your goal is to build a thriving business for _your_ customers. A fertilizer company isn't happy with the placement they are getting in your stores, so they sue you and say you need to give them dedicated, premium space in the parking lot. They also think i…

It sounds ridiculous because the analogy is really far-fetched. A slightly better one would be that the owner of Walmart is also the mayor of the town, and he won't approve the business permit for the fertilizer store unless they agree to also sell their stuff at Walmart.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#820

Post by ThatPlayer »

cmdli wrote: post #596
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you can argue for less software freedoms, while paying a 30% tax for any app you distribute, is honestly mind boggling to me. >On the one hand, Apple is acting as a store curator and demanding that its customers be made aware of tracking software. This sounds like marketing. Apple is limiting what apps their customers have access to. I wonder if you would make the same argument if Apple starts blocking websites?

As a user, I'm free to buy Android if I want to. I buy iPhones specifically because software developers are forced to go through Apple's more strict guidelines (see the Apple/Facebook fight for a recent example of why I personally like it). I can trust the software I use much more on Apple's platform. I want to have the freedom to buy and use such a platform, and Apple wants the freedom to sell and maintain such a pl…

> The entire process falls apart if Apple is forced to allow other App Stores.

Why? You have the choice of not using other App Stores. Just like you have the choice to not use Android, so therefore it doesn't effect you.

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