Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#811

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:18 AM UTC

mancerayder wrote: post #713

ebg13 wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Orwell coined the term "doublethink" to describe two contradictory concepts held simultaneously. Something like this: > >Consequences may include social sanctions and violent reactions. > >exercise your right to free speech (which is your right) This is a false assessment. The fundamental government-blind right to speech does not include a right to group inclusion. There's nothing contradictory about you having the…

>And it's not contradictory to have moral rules in favor of speech and against hate while also allowing the community to punch a nazi in the face for being a nazi. There it is again. Yes, it absolutely is contradictory to proclaim that you support freedom of expression while threatening to punch someone in the face when you disagree with their ideas!

[deleted]

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#812

Post by Thuggery » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:22 AM UTC

symlinkk wrote: post #378

cryptoz wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the 'heavy censorship' is the only thing keeping hobby communities going well. Without that moderation, you'd be trying to learn about something fun like knitting but you'd see a bunch of hateful content, like racist MAGA stuff instead of knitting for example. Having the moderation get stronger is the only way to save hobby subreddits IMO.

No you wouldn’t, that’s the whole point of upvotes and downvotes. The community gets to decide what’s popular. Not moderators.

Isn't it funny how reddit ended up the opposite of what it was seemingly designed as? A system with a community policing vote process turned into a community that is one of, if not the, most top down moderated spaces on the Internet. Where the voting system turned into a supplementary group control system rather than a liberator.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#813

Post by ebg13 » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:24 AM UTC

mancerayder wrote: post #713

ebg13 wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Orwell coined the term "doublethink" to describe two contradictory concepts held simultaneously. Something like this: > >Consequences may include social sanctions and violent reactions. > >exercise your right to free speech (which is your right) This is a false assessment. The fundamental government-blind right to speech does not include a right to group inclusion. There's nothing contradictory about you having the…

>And it's not contradictory to have moral rules in favor of speech and against hate while also allowing the community to punch a nazi in the face for being a nazi. There it is again. Yes, it absolutely is contradictory to proclaim that you support freedom of expression while threatening to punch someone in the face when you disagree with their ideas!

[flagged]

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#814

Post by vanniv » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:32 AM UTC

mantas wrote: post #280

andybak wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> from any subreddit that toes their party line There's plenty of right-leaning subreddits. What set The_Donald apart was how close it sailed to being outright cultishly crazy.

How many left-leaning subreddits were banned? There're several toxic commie subs with a lot of hatred thrown around, but nobody seems to care. r/politics was default for ages and it wasn't exactly a welcoming place.

Zero.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#815

Post by caconym_ » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:32 AM UTC

ebg13 wrote: post #794

caconym_ wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance > Less well known [than other paradoxes Popper discusses] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with t…

> if they haven't started the violence first You mean physical violence. Physical violence is not the only kind of violence. It seems common for people in the "nazis get to talk too" camp to forget or ignore that.

Not that I think it matters at this point in the discussion, but I did not intend for the scope of my language to be restricted to physical violence.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#816

Post by HeadsUpHigh » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:34 AM UTC

ryankemper wrote: post #207

duxup wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would something decentralized help? I don't think people want that. The_Donald involved a lot of spreading their message / fake news sites / spamming across other subs and etc. Do people want to be on a platform where other folks on the same platform are targeting their community with dishonest and often bigoted content? I'm also not sure how much The_Donald was as a community. The sheer volume of users at its height…

> I'm also not sure how much The_Donald was as a community. It was very clearly a real community, as you can see evidence from the fact that they migrated to thedonald.win when Reddit made it clear that they wouldn't be treated fairly. > So you'd be in your other community and one day they all show up and down votes and the vitriol begins... it was no mystery that this happened, it was spoken of openly in The_Donald…

I'm having a hard time believing this comment was made in good faith. There is nothing made up about T_D, they were blatantly vote manipulating and planting posts in other subs. This has been well known for a while and reddit has done everything in their hand to let the sub exist while trying to make it abide by the platform's rules.

The constantly see right wing people complaining about some massive number of left-wing subs that are breaking the rules but I've never ever seen any actual proof of that. Care to provide some links? Meanwhile I have seen T_D doing it consistently for years and the amount of leeway reddit has given them has been huge. The only left-wing sub that I can think of was chapotraphouse and that's gone now as well.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#817

Post by vanniv » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:41 AM UTC

perf1 wrote: post #663

rgrs wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake news for us, but not to those who were part of it. It wasn't fake news at all. They are going to group again somewhere else. The member might see this as action to silence. This could make them even more angry and isolated. Reddit meanwhile will be a unreliable source of information to them.

They already build a clone of their reddit forum a long time ago.

They correctly saw that, in the run-up to the election, all the big leftist tech companies would assert themselves and silence conservatives in an effort to "prevent the next Trump situation" as Google's Jen Gennai put it last May when she thought she was talking to a fellow "diversity advocate".

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#818

Post by wnevets » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:42 AM UTC

SmokeyHamster wrote: post #806

wnevets wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a number of subreddits like r/ConsumeProduct were taken over by the hate mongers from the_donald. You would have post brigaded to the front page that had absolutely nothing to do with consumerism or product promotion

Can you link to an example? Oh right...it's all deleted, so we'll have to take your word...and your definition of whatever you consider "hate"...which has no definition...

You seem upset that the_donald and others have been banned.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#819

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:42 AM UTC

zackees wrote: post #791

newacct583 wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which BLM-related subreddit needs to be banned, and for which content? Can you link to it?

I believe in a free and open internet.

[deleted]

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#820

Post by vanniv » Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:46 AM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #94

pyronik19 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit particularly used to be a free speech platform where anything could go and then used network effects to gain dominance. Now that they have dominance they now implement censorship of right wing views comments. This is true for Facebooks deboosting capabilities.

I'm not seeing "school vouchers" or "individual responsibility", classical pillars of Conservative values, being censored. I am seeing a ton of censoring of racist and hateful comments, both openly so and dog whistles. So unless you're claiming that right-wing values are inherently racist or hateful...

You aren't seeing that content censored, because that content has been censored, and its posters vilified so completely, for so long, that it has disappeared.

There are virtually zero republicans or conservatives on any social media site -- they know they aren't welcome, so they don't engage very much.

You don't see them being censored because, at this point, they self-censor.

Who wants to be doxxed and have their employer harassed into firing them just for trying to have a calm conversation with people who want to murder them anyway