Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud

#811

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

kevinventullo wrote: post #615

mindcrime wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers these days say "Chuck it in S3" or "Run it on EC2". I feel they have a strong advantage because they've kind of come to own the language of the cloud. After many years of working with AWS almost exclusively, I recently started a new $DAYJOB where our primary public cloud provider is Azure. A couple of days ago I was chatting with a co-worker about something, and he literally says "I think we should just ch…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_trademark

Exactly.

Re: Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud

#812

Post by DougN7 » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #717

Lammy wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue for me isn't Reader itself but what it says about the disconnect between Google management and us, the users of Google products. That seems to have happened around the time Google went from _having_ a "user base" to being effectively ubiquitous. I can't speak for others, but Google of the 2000s "got" the hacker/nerd mindset in a way that was the closest thing to empathy I've ever felt from a corporation. Th…

Free consumer products are not the same as paid enterprise services. The markets are entirely different, and ascribing the fate of Google Reader as a sign of anything on the B2B front doesn't make sense.

It's not just Reader and all the other services. It's really crappy customer service too. Reddit's got a good thread going about someone that paid up on GSUITE that got their account locked. You have to hope a tweet goes viral to get help.

https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/ecacki/gsuite_sus...

Re: Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud

#813

Post by lordlimecat » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

pradn wrote: post #803

ogre_codes wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it's not about being #1, it's about being profitable. The problem Google has with the developer community is largely around the fact that Google has a long history of pulling the rug out from our feet. There have been 3 stories on HN in the past couple weeks alone about Google products which have either been dropped or changed significantly such that they are no longer viable for developers to use. Google has lo…

It's absurd to compare loss-making consumer products with a business that's the only shot for Google diversifying beyond ads and that has companies paying hundreds of millions of dollars over decade+ contracts. Urs says enterprises don't care about this aspect of the Google brand. What they do care about is Google's reputation for technical excellence and security.

Windows on the desktop is hardly a profit center for Microsoft, but they have the good sense not to kill their reputation for reliability.

Re: Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud

#814

Post by dragonsh » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 4:44 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #798

dragonsh wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies prefer to purchase services within an established contract than to go ahead and sign a new one with new provider and go through the bidding process. Also .Net is synonymous with microsoft so there is no reason to trust AWS, it's not their priority, they are a Perl and Java shop in general.

AWS is always bragging that they have twice as many Windows VMs than Azure. AWS a Perl shop? All of AWS services treat C# .Net Core as a first class citizen. - CodeBuild has prebuilt C# .Net Core images for building apps. For licensing reasons they don’t have prebuilt Windows/Framework containers but their instructions are so clear that I was able to build one before I knew anything about Docker - Lambda has native s…

AWS was built to support Amazon website which is built in Perl and still internal AWS core code might contain perl. Probably over the years they might have moved slowly to Java. I don't work for AWS so can't say much.

Regarding support for .NET whatever AWS does microsoft will always be way ahead of them. Microsoft is not elastic.co that AWS leech on and put the original guys on the side and don't contribute back. AWS is really like a leech on open source now trying to leech on Kubernetes.

They can do this with small open source project, not with the projects supported by google or Microsoft. Like when it comes to Kubernetes AWS is playing catch with Google. So AWS Fargate and other services are still inferior to Google managed K8s. Indeed microsoft at present is ahead of AWS in managed kubernetes services. Its just the initial head-start and developers who are familiar with AWS proprietary API's find it hard to believe that in such a short time the skills they learned is no longer cutting edge and google or microsoft proprietary API's overtaken them in performance and ease of use.

Re: Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud

#815

Post by throwaway2048 » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

dragonsh wrote: post #814

scarface74 wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS is always bragging that they have twice as many Windows VMs than Azure. AWS a Perl shop? All of AWS services treat C# .Net Core as a first class citizen. - CodeBuild has prebuilt C# .Net Core images for building apps. For licensing reasons they don’t have prebuilt Windows/Framework containers but their instructions are so clear that I was able to build one before I knew anything about Docker - Lambda has native s…

AWS was built to support Amazon website which is built in Perl and still internal AWS core code might contain perl. Probably over the years they might have moved slowly to Java. I don't work for AWS so can't say much. Regarding support for .NET whatever AWS does microsoft will always be way ahead of them. Microsoft is not elastic.co that AWS leech on and put the original guys on the side and don't contribute back. AW…

AWS was never built to support amazons website, it was never the result of amazon.com's internal code-base of "hosting" getting made public, it was never amazon's excess peak server capacity, etc, it had virtually no relation to the hosting of amazon.com at all, it was an independent project that might have benefited from a lot of the general design principles of how amazon.com was built, but that is it.

All of these things are widely believed myths that have little to no basis in reality.

It certainly was not designed as some kind of Perl hosting environment.

It didn't even host Amazon.com at all until many years after the fact.

Re: Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud

#816

Post by auiya » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 4:58 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #455

altgoogler wrote: post #414

Googler here. My opinions are my own; I have no non-public knowledge on this topic. I do not understand the hyperbole around this report. Nowhere does it say that Google plans to shutter GCP if it doesn't reach #1 by 2023. > said people with knowledge of the matter. As in, people who may not have even been at said meeting which took place nearly two years ago, under a different VP and now a different CEO, and saw som…

> So it's not about being #1, it's about being profitable. The problem Google has with the developer community is largely around the fact that Google has a long history of pulling the rug out from our feet. There have been 3 stories on HN in the past couple weeks alone about Google products which have either been dropped or changed significantly such that they are no longer viable for developers to use. Google has lo…

It's also interesting that Google is willing to suffer an unprofitable product for many many years (YouTube) without being fickle and cutting it, yet other products aren't even given a fair shot before getting the axe.

Re: Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud

#817

Post by auiya » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

res0nat0r wrote: post #672

QuinnyPig wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the entire problem. Swap “Google” for “AWS” in the article and you’d have legions of folks calling foul on the article. Instead, most folks are nodding along to the article going “yep, seems like something Google would do all right…” Google’s problem remains its reputation for turning things off.

The issue is that folks here think GCP is the same thing as Google Reader. That's absurd. Google is currently building a massive $500 million datacenter outside of Reno as we speak, and has 10+ billion invested in their datacenter cloud offering buildout this year alone. GCP and the entire physical infrastructure isn't going to get "turned off" if it isn't #1 in the market in 3 years, that's just silly. https://9to5g…

Those datacenters don't only house GCP you know. I'd be willing to bet GCP only makes up a comparatively small portion of their datacenter computing resources.

Re: Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud

#818

Post by innagadadavida » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

auiya wrote: post #816

ogre_codes wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it's not about being #1, it's about being profitable. The problem Google has with the developer community is largely around the fact that Google has a long history of pulling the rug out from our feet. There have been 3 stories on HN in the past couple weeks alone about Google products which have either been dropped or changed significantly such that they are no longer viable for developers to use. Google has lo…

It's also interesting that Google is willing to suffer an unprofitable product for many many years (YouTube) without being fickle and cutting it, yet other products aren't even given a fair shot before getting the axe.

Other than profits, YouTube has many problems that no other product has - like dealing with bad content, detecting and enforcing copyright infringements, comment spam, storage costs. After going through all these headaches, the profits seem even smaller.

Re: Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud

#819

Post by satyavelMS » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #743

satyavelMS wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for providing us your specific feedback. I am part of the ARM Deployments Team. We are looking to support export for resource groups(RG) with more than 200 resources. One of the top customer requests with regards to export was the ability to multi-select individual resources in a RG to be exported which we added a few month ago. We have renewed our focus on ARM Template deployments(our infra as code offering)…

Jesus wept. * Comments in JSON -- the standard explicitly bans this, making ARM templates no longer JSON, and hence not processable by standards-compliant tools. Including, hilariously, PowerShell. ConvertFrom-Json barfs, as it should. The correct approach is to have an explicitly non-JSON format like TOML or YAML that allows comments. * "ARM has this whole time been secretly case insensitive" -- Someone clearly hasn…

Thanks again for the feedback and totally agree with you on some of the points you have made. We are exploring some options with regards to the language. Wondering if you would be willing to do a call with us and get your thoughts\feedback. My email is satyavel[at]microsoft[dot]com if you would be willing to chat.

Re: Google Brass Set 2023 as Deadline to Beat Amazon, Microsoft in Cloud

#820

Post by Touche » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #441

vosper wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neither is AWS This article lists some of the AWS services that now power Amazon.com since they moved away from Oracle. So, while it may not have been true in the past, it does now appear that AWS powers a significant portion of Amazon.com. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/migration-complete-amazons-...

Amazon using AWS today is entirely different from the origins of AWS or GCP or Azure being productizations of internal infrastructure. AWS services have always been their own thing, they happen to be useful so today Amazon utilizes them just like anyone else. That doesn't mean the services started internally. https://www.networkworld.com/article/2891297/the-myth-about-...

I think you're being a bit too literal here. Did AWS merely fork the infrastructure that Amazon.com runs on and start selling it, no. But are you telling me that it wasn't built on the lessons learned of amazon.com and that it doesn't share some aspects of how amazon.com worked a the time (with improvements to the bad parts)? I don't know the answer and maybe it was a clean-room implementation but that seems unlikely to me.