Live data from Hacker News

Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

lesnumeriques.com

801–810 of 811 posts

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#801
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes it a bad design, since every person you interact with has the potential to be a scumbag and not deliver on what you paid for. "Get a lawyer and sue them" or "Rely on your local consumer advocacy agency" cannot be the answers at the kind of scale that will be enabled. This is the reason I only _ever_ spend money on credit cards, and never use cash or debit cards (European in the US). I've personally had at…

(I was editing when you repplied so I'll add it here for you:) And just to add, you can have "chargeback" for PIX as a separate service, most banks offer PIX insurance that is basically CC chargeback by a different name. But the key is that it is separate from the payment infrastructure itself, it is an insurance service that you contract separately. And that separation ins very important, the insurance company can't…

> in court, which is the appropriate venue to decide who is right or wrong in a transaction.

Hard disagree on this - it makes the asymmetry between individual consumer and powerful company too substantial. At least with the status quo, there is another powerful company _on the side of the individual consumer_.

Requiring a court case for every case of unfulfilled contracts which could be resolved trivially by credit card companies would mean I'd done almost nothing else this year besides dealing with that, instead of making three calls to American Express.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#802

I'd like to take this opportunity to share with you all that Wero is called Wero because Euro is pronounced "you-ro" and when you share your you-ro it becomes a we-ro.

Funny because euro is Greek ευρώ, which is pronounced ev-ro. The Cyrillic евро on notes is also pronounced the same.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#803
post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American consumers have no democratic control of that duopoly either.

To be fair both are publicly traded and owning shares would give you voting rights.

this doesn’t sound reassuring. there is not a nationality test on buying shares

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#804
post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that merchants will ditch the card-pos in the long run. You scan a QR-code or send money through some app. Satispay does that in Italy and got massive rollout from stores because fees were pretty low also for smaller transfers, so no more "sorry, at least 5 euros to pay with card"

Too bad you will be forced to use a phone then. I don't like having yet another single point of failure. But maybe by that time, the EU requirement to accept cash will have taken force.

Indeed. It's a step forward and two backwards, personally I don't have payment cards on the phone wallet because one company surveilling my purchases is enough. Hopefully there will be some Wero-powered card option. From a UX point of view, both payers and merchants, it's still the most practical and fast.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#805
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single 3 and 4 letter .com domain has been registered for at least 20 years, not a single one is available to register. Domains aren’t the reason for names like “wiro” and “tubi”.

Yeah its a bit bad LLLL.com are all taken I do have k4qr.com but its LNLL. On the other hand though, there are still .org and .net if you are lucky. I usually just use tld-list.com to find all the domains from a particular keyword and then you can buy one which can be nice (eg: I bought https://mirror.forum this way) that being said, you can find the registration prices to sometimes be cheap but the renewal prices ca…

funny enough LLLL.com redirects to qq.com [the Chinese portal]

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure they gain something from it. My Brazillian bank charges me 600% yearly interest on credit card purchases. However, the cost of a lawsuit can quickly offset the costs of a CC. Depending on the state, there may not be a maximum cap on expenses, making lawsuits incredibly expensive. (Whereas having paid by card you could ask for a chargeback instead of needing to sue) It's also a very time consuming ordeal hav…

Am I mistaken or hasn't that been capped to 100% for a while?

The maximum they can take in fees in a 12 month period is 100% of the original sum, having a 600% interest rate just means they get to the 100% cap that much faster. Ensuring that the consumer does not have sufficient time to pay off the debt before it doubles.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#807
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish Wero was a real alternative but it seem to be a thin wrapper around Bank APIs and SEPA instant transactions. It has pretty much non of the functionality that PayPal or other services give. It just makes it easier to send money with a phone number instead of an IBAN. My bank doesn't even support it.

> My bank doesn't even support it. It's not like it's that difficult to implement. Most Brazilian banks implemented a similar protocol in months.

still waiting for my bank to implement TOTP 2FA or passkeys instead of their home grown "memorize 7 digits number and we will ask you 4 random positions"

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#808

Banks in Spain, Italy and Portugal are joining what this article describes as France’s Wero system [1]. («L'initiative française Wero».) Focus this year is on P2P transfers. Commerce is targeted for 2027. Given EuroPA has done a token amount of transactions to date, I’m not sure anyone should hold their breaths. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment)

> Given EuroPA has done a token amount of transactions to date, I’m not sure anyone should hold their breaths. The Spanish equivalent (Bizum) is merging into Wero is not a token use case, it's absolutely massive here. The absolute standard for peer-to-peer payments, more than 30 million users (>65% of the population), and they already launched contactless terminals for in-person commercial payments this month ( https…

same for MBWay in Portugal

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#809
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work Is it? I see it more as an underwhelming fix for SEPA Direct Debit's inability to verify payment data synchronously. * iDeal doesn't support basic features like pre-authorization. I'm not even sure if it supports setting up a payment agreement without triggering an immediate payment at all (pretty sure it didn't, when we inte…

No. The bank gives you a prominent notification when someone new gets a direct debit authorization for your account. And a merchant gets banned quickly when they misuse their debit authorization.

right. direct debit has been a thing for a long time and I have never got a fraud attempt or heard of anyone who did

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#810
post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work Is it? I see it more as an underwhelming fix for SEPA Direct Debit's inability to verify payment data synchronously. * iDeal doesn't support basic features like pre-authorization. I'm not even sure if it supports setting up a payment agreement without triggering an immediate payment at all (pretty sure it didn't, when we inte…

I was under the impression that direct debit requires an initial authorization from the account owner? Otherwise anyone with your bank account number can pull your account funds and bank account numbers are hardly a private information (unlike a cc where you need the card number/expiry/cvv code and generally a correct address)

Not quite (but maybe differs per bank?). You get a notification a few days before the first debit takes place, and you have the right to request the debit be annulled for at least a month after it happens.

I've never seen an address needed for a cc charge, although sometimes a zip code is needed.

Post reply on HN